Text on bomb: “Thereis no divinity but God and
Muhammad is his prophet.â€
The Danish cartoon hysteria continues (all 12 cartoons available here). Those who oppose the political cartoons run in the Jyllands-Posten newspaper have started an online petition. The wording of the petition is great.
I have reviewed some of the news agencies’ reports concerning what the Danish news agency Jyllands-Posten had published, which I believe to be a heinous mistake and dreadful deviation from the path of justice, reverence and equality. The said agency published 12 cartoon caricatures on the 30th of September 2005, ridiculing Mohammad, the Messenger of Islam peace be upon him (PBUH). One of these cartoons pictures Allah’s Messenger PBUH wearing a turban that resembles a bomb wrapped around his head. What a pathetic projection!
I was extremely saddened to read such news, so I personally visited the site of the agency on the Internet to examine the size of the blundering scandal. On the 29th of Sept 2005′s issue of Jyllands-Posten, I saw and read dreadful news and cartoons. The news and the cartoons were horrifying and extremely disturbing to me.
I believe all Muslims who read, viewed or learned about this news were equally saddened, disappointed and disturbed. All criticized such work and felt awful and dismayed about it. Similarly, I do believe that all sane and wise people, I believe, would feel the same about it.
I suppose I am neither sane nor wise because I am hardly disgusted with the cartoons that I have seen. Apparently it is not ok to question why Islamic radicals feel it is Allah’s wish sent down through the prophet Mohammed to bomb innocent civilians and even take their own life murdering innocents while your family and friends celebrate at home, but it is perfectly fine for the Arab press to ridicule the Holocaust if not question it altogether.
I assume it is freedom of speech to ridicule Israel and the Jewish people, but once Islam is poked at it’s time for massive boycotts and a petition to get Jyllands-Posten to apologize. The author of the online petition says he doesn’t believe freedom of speech protects the cartoons in question.
The claim of Jyllands-Posten newspaper that they allow, promote and practice freedom of speech, by publishing cartoons ridiculing Mohammad the Prophet of Islam PBUH, is a non-convincing claim. All worlds’ constitutions and international organisations insist on and demand to respect all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah, the Almighty. Moreover, they confirm the necessity to respect the Divine Messages, respect others and do not attack the privacy, dignity, honour and principles of others.
I’m not certain which constitution the author of this petition has read, but I have not seen one that demands respect of “all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah, the Almighty.” I don’t recall ever seeing international sanctions on the various shots taken at any other of the world’s major religions. When is the last time a Buddhist was outraged over a political cartoon depicting Buddha as too fat?
There is an unwritten rule in Arab states that forbid the cartooning of Mohammed and Allah, but Denmark is not an Arab state. It is a nation which shares many of the same protections most of the West is used to. We are used to seeing political cartoons of a wide variety which take jabs at politicians and any number of beliefs that we may like or share. We don’t necessarily like all political cartoons, and a good number I do not, but we recognize that if there isn’t incitement to violence in the cartoon or speech then it is both protected under Freedom of Speech laws and an acceptable part of society.
To those who are protesting against the Danish cartoons though, there is incitement of violence, but that incitement is occuring because of the reaction to the cartoons and not the cartoons’ content itself. The Jawa Report posted earlier that there may be a suicide bomb attack in Denmark not because Denmark has a contingent of soldiers in Iraq, they are part of the ‘West’ or that Denmark’s borders are within the greater Caliphate, but because of the Danish cartoons. Yes, in this case cartoons which question why a prophet of God would advocate violence are cause to rise up and stick it to the Man in Denmark.
The Brussels Journal notes security at Jyllands-Posten has been upgraded and cartoonists at the newspaper are in fear of their lives. Radical Islamists have threatened to bomb the newspaper and kill the cartoonists a la Dutch filmaker Theo Van Gogh. When is the last time a director of a movie that portrays any other religion in a less than flattering way was killed on the streets of a major city leaving a note behind promising more carnage then telling a courtroom killing the director was an act “purely in the name of [his] religion?” Bueller?
The Danish cartoons, and the aftermath they have created started by the Saudi ban of Danish goods, demonstrate to the world that is watching there is a double standard to religion. This double standard enables Muslims to ridicule all other religions, including calling Judaism evil, but you cannot say anything that might be perceived as derogatory to Islam. The two cartoons which seem to have sparked the most outrage (the one depicted above and another showing Mohammed as a “knife-wielding terrorist”) seem to question the role of religion in terms of radical Islamic terrorism, something I don’t know why good Muslims aren’t questioning more of. Instead of either questioning whether Mohammed’s message to the world was that it’s perfectly fine to murder infidels and apostates was written in stone or misconstrued over the years, an infidel drawing a satirical look at how Mohammed’s message from Allah is currently being interpreted has drawn the ire of thousands of Muslims.
Interestingly enough, the link to the petition was found on a radical Islamic message board.
What really saddens me is that so far, no other western country has stood up and publically supported my country in it´s defence of the freedom of speech. Neither has the EU or the UN – the latter has, in fact, expressed sympathy with the angry reaction of the muslim world!
Comment by Adam B — Monday, January 30, 2006 @ 8:25 am UTC
It is not only the ‘Muslim world’ that has responded to the portrayal of the Prophet Muhammad by this newspaper but all those, Muslim or otherwise who know of the biographical details of this most remarkable man.
I urge the journalists, cartoonists and all those in doubt to read ‘Muhammad’ by Martin Lings. This is a historical account of the life of this great man, assured to relieve you of your apparent ignorance.
Comment by Sarah — Monday, January 30, 2006 @ 9:44 am UTC
This “great man” that Sarah spoke of us a murderer, a pedophile, and a thief. Further, the right to critical review of both religion and those that advocate it is built into the fabric of Western life.
Comment by Crusader — Monday, January 30, 2006 @ 1:44 pm UTC
Wow, so “remarkable” was this “Prophet” that to even obliquely criticize him invites howls of outrage and threats of violence from his followers — who are not exactly reluctant to commit violence!
Mohammed started a religious cult, invaded cities after concluding two-faced treaties he had no intention of keeping, and “married” a pre-teen girl. His followers have spread their particular brand of backcountry Arab misogyny and intolerant religous dogma by conquering lands from North Africa to Southeast Asia. And now they go into a frothing rage whenever someone in the civilized world has the temerity to poke fun at their religious icon, even as they have conquered, subjugated, taxed, tortured, and murdered followers of other religions — oh, sorry, infidels and kaffirs — for centuries. Yeah, Sarah, forgive us our “ignorance” at daring to say something the “faithful” don’t approve of.
Comment by E. Nough — Monday, January 30, 2006 @ 1:54 pm UTC
Adam, why international governments, the UN or the EU have not stood up is beyond me. It’s a tragedy.
Sarah, I do not care to get into a theological discussion over who Muhammed is or what he stood for. That said, do you not believe it is perfectly acceptable for political cartoonists to take jabs at people whom some in society deem as great men? I have a great deal of respect for Tony Blair, though I am not British nor do I agree with many of his political stances, but there are thousands of cartoons which characterize Blair poorly.
I agree with the right to publish those cartoons just as I agree with the the right to publish the Danish cartoons. Furthermore, the Danish cartoons don’t necessarily question Muhammed, but question why radical Islamic terrorists today are using Muhammed as justification to murder thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians in his name. Yet, according to you, I need to be relieved of my “apparent ignorance.”
No, it is you that is misguided in believing in this double standard that prevails with political cartoons. Why is it acceptable in the Arab press to question faiths other than Islam, but it is not acceptable to question Islam in non-Arab nations? Sorry, I won’t pay the jizya, and hopefully nor will the Danes.
Comment by Chad Evans — Monday, January 30, 2006 @ 3:00 pm UTC
Comment has been deleted due to content. Most comments (99.9%) on this site are unmoderated with very few hitting an exception to the rule. Please keep all comments profanity free and to the point.
Comment by Anonymous — Monday, January 30, 2006 @ 4:53 pm UTC
This is a wake-up call to all you misguided relativists. I’ll subscribe to that Danish newspaper today!
Comment by Billy Bob — Monday, January 30, 2006 @ 6:12 pm UTC
E nough, it’s not Islam which you speak of, but the Arabic culture. It’s crude, backstabbing, ignorant, and doesn’t allow room for questions. Actually thinking about these cartoons, about what they actually mean or why were they created, would be unheard of in the arab culture. This culture can’t even look beneath the surface of Islam to figure out what Islam (submission of your Ego to God) really means….how could it possibly understand political satire? All of this said, please don’t stereotype.
Only 25 percent of muslims are arab….btw….Yes, it’s high time the rest of us took a stand and stood up and said that this crap is not our religion, and these people filled with hatred and violence and ignorance aren’t in the “club” so to speak.
To them I say, to you your religion, and to me mine.
Peace…
Comment by EA12stepper — Monday, January 30, 2006 @ 9:04 pm UTC
I think I’ll subscribe to that paper too.
What really gets me about this is that the supposed ‘tolerant’ progressives in our country are siding with the Muslims. The UN and EU. What is wrong with these people??
They seem to be willing to sell our culture right down the river to save their own sorry hydes!
Don’t they realize if they back this attempt to suppress freedom of speech that’s one step closer to them losing their own freedoms? Are they really so afraid to stand up to these bullies?
For the life of me I can’t understand how they can look themselves in a mirror. They claim to be tolerant and for the rights of the little man. But they back socialist regimes, Castro, Chevez and oppressive, murderous regimes like the Muslims that are bulling this newspaper.
BUT – they’ll think a museum exhibit with feces on Christ is ‘art’ and tell us that taking it down is bigoted.
Who can figure these people out?
Good for the Danes!
I’m thinking we should start a ‘Blog Danish’ campaign!
Comment by beth — Monday, January 30, 2006 @ 10:06 pm UTC
Sorry I went on a tear there – this is just starting to get my dander up.
Comment by beth — Monday, January 30, 2006 @ 10:07 pm UTC
This is job inspired by Americans Agency and Isreal, targets He must be encouraged by American and Israel,this is a job to humilate Muslim world but Inshallah this will be his last drawing.
Comment by intakhab N alam — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 1:29 am UTC
Chad Evans hit the point on the nail. The article in Jyllandsposten wasn´t a critisicm of Islam as such – although many of the islamic customs and practices invites to debate in a modern society – but rather about the attrocities and acts of selfrighteousness that are commited in the name of Islam all over the world. The reaction in the arab world to these drawings just underlines the point of the article even further – they have reacted in exactly the way that the article foresaw…
Comment by Adam B — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 1:32 am UTC
This is very disappointing to point fingures at some other religion and on top of that you do not know nothing about it. This is very sad and should not have been done at the first place. Now when Danish news agency Jyllands-Posten had published, they will have to apologize to all of the Muslim Community around the world and will have to punish the subject with the severe punishment and should Hang him/her till death. If he is left alone and no action is taken will initiate a war against them by Muslims. This is a very disturbing joke made by them and they might will have to hand him/her to Muslims so that they can punish him/her themselves.
All MUSLIMS — This is the time to wake up and to initiate a war against such Enemies of Islam and people who disrespect islam and do not follow the Sayings of Holy Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) and make fun of. We all should get together at a forum and fight for the justice.
Comment by Muhammed Jehanzaib — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 6:01 am UTC
Adam, E. Nough, Crusader and Chad Evans — You all stay ignorant because of the fact that you have not studied how this whole universe came into being, who made it and why it was made, what were the causes of this to be made and your purpose in your life.
Muhammed (PBUH) Last Holy Prophet of Islam who was a messnger sent by God just like Jesus and Mosas. He spreaded the same message to all humanity as Jesus and Mosas did with a little addition and that was for the elimination of ignorance and terrorism. Whatever is going on in the world is not because Muslims are commiting any violence but this is all because other Nations are trying to rule Muslims and to capture all the resources they have for their own benefits and then they are blaming Muslims for that without Proofs.
Islam is the religion of Peace and teaches the same but if someone disrespect the religion is suppose to be punished and should be killed. These cartoons depict sick mentality of the western world. Teachings of Islam always respect the other religions on earth.
Now the point remains unaddressed is we need to punish the culparate as he can do the same kind of serious misconduct again with Jesus and or Mosas which is again totally not acceptable by Muslims, Jews and Christians. We all need to get him/her to their end. I do not want to offend any other reliogion and would expect the same from all the other people.
Comment by Muhammed Jehanzaib — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 6:39 am UTC
This is the concept of hypocrisy in full effect.
“Islam is the religion of Peace and teaches the same but if someone disrespect the religion is suppose to be punished and should be killed. ”
No sane reasonable person is going to side with a people who condone the indiscriminate slaughter of innocents across the world.
Also, global economy dictates other countries going in for your resources. For which I might add you are handsomely compensated for. Compensated for? Rather, funded for the disgusting murders.
Denounce the violence. Have the rank and file Muslim denounce the violence and maybe we won’t see the “ignorance” of those who question a people who follow a deity that allows for such inhumane treatment.
You can not impose change in a country that practices freedom of speech.
Comment by Ozzie — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 6:59 am UTC
If we are talking about FREEDOM OF SPEECH, which we all respect, does the Posten newspaper and the cartoonists have the GUTS to say the same thing about Judaism??? Alternatively, will this fall under the anti-Semitic laws! I’m not against any and all Jews; I’m against the outrage against all Muslims. Those cartoonists obviously do not know their history well! Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is all about love; respect, peace, generosity, forgiveness, and much much more! If you read about him, you will respect him and understand why the Arab world AS A WHOLE are outraged (Muslims and Christians together). Recently, an economical boycott is occurring in all Islamic nations against any Danish products. The European community is making a very strong stand and threatening to impose severe ACTIONS in solidarity w/ Denmark. Did the European community do the SAME thing when the United States of America boycotted French products since they did not interfere and disapproved on the Iraqi invasion? WHY?????????? Are they intimidated from the USA and not the Arabs? We are not here to place fear, if you think that every Muslim is a terrorist THEN YOUR OBVIOUSLY IGNORANT!!! Our religion is against all types of terror; we are peaceful and will stay peaceful in the eyes of God.
Ashraf Khalil
Comment by Ashraf Khalil — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 7:15 am UTC
Islam is a religion of Peace no doubt, but there is no denying it was spread by the sword, and gave justice to the people from other faiths, has anyone thought why is it the most popular religion in the world not to mention the fastest growing religion in the USA it self, a country which boasts diliverance of justice by bombimg civilians. Therefore looking at the Muslim Holocaust today coupled with such slandery and rhetoric, I believe Muslims all over the world have lost their way, we have to pick up the Sword yet again, since this is the only language understood by the “civilized world”. Who cares about being branded a terrorist when you burry your own baby girl or a boy, whose only mistake was plucking flowers when a 600 lbs Bomb fell from the sky ripping evvery little tender bone in her body. All people from other faiths shall God Willingly live happily under Islams protection, ridding this world of racism.
Comment by Omar Khan — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 7:50 am UTC
I was very upset when I learned about the cartoon in the Danish news papers, but now I am very disturbed after I read some of the comments published by the readers on both sides. Freedom of speech is different than insulting other people’s faith. How would you like it if this were pics of Jesus or Moses. I personally as a Muslim I would be outraged as Islam teaches respect of all prophets and other religions.
We as humans should try to understand our differneces yet appreciate our similarities. PEACE
Comment by Mohamed — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 8:56 am UTC
As there is an anti semetic law, there should be a law that prohibts the insult of prophets and religious leaders so we dont spread the hate among us. This was a series insult on our prophet and definetly should not accepted by muslims or non muslims alike. I encourage we leave the stereotyping behined us and learn more about each other. I find it very easy to hate, but hard to try to understand and accept the other
Salam Alykum
Comment by Mohamed Egypt — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 9:13 am UTC
To answer the questions popping up again and again about how we would feel about carricatures of Jesus or Abraham or whatnot – we see it all the time. Some of us may feel outraged (not me – I´m an atheist) but so we answer in kind, or perhaps we even sit down and think about why someone would make such a statement. In this case, terrorist actions are being commited every day in the name of Allah, often at the expense of 10 innocent muslioms for every non-muslim it touches. A picture of Muhammed (a metaphore for the average devout muslim) with a bomb -shaped turban should invoke selfscrutinization, not anger or violence. The fact that many muslims have zero tolerance for critique cannot possibly be my problem, particularly when I´m living in a country where I´m allowed to say what I feel like. The government has no possible sanction against such articles – the government has NO judicial powers. They cannot judge and they cannot punish! They can in many muslim states, which is probably why millions are fleeing from your countries to our countries – that in itself speaks volumes!
You say that Islam respects other nations…? Where is the christian churches in Saudi Arabia, the holy land of the muslims?! I´ve lived in that country for 4 years in the 1980′s and upon my first arrival had a necklace with a cross confiscated. The practice of other religions is completely banned in Saudi! Respectful, indeed!!!
You are all welcome to boycot Denmark as you please as private persons, but a state-initiated boycot outside UN-regi is illegal acocording to international law. Likewise is any sort of deaththreat, something that comes all to often and all to easily from the lips of muslims around the world. How would you like it if the western world showered you with nukes everytime a hostage is killed in the name of Islam? That is the justice that you propose towards us…!
Comment by Adam B — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 9:46 am UTC
Balderdash…Poppycock, twaddle, good comics…I snickered through all of them. What a sorry lot. Reasoning is one’s ability to identify and integrate into one’s mind without contradiction the material provided by the senses, and consists of Cognition and Evaluation. Cognition is one’s attempt to discover what things are, their Nature, Attributes, and Properties. Evaluation is one’s attempt to discover the relationship of things to one’s self, good for you, bad for you, to be sought or avoided. Reasoning my Muslim friends is ONE of your problems. Please tell me how you reason, ahh hmm in a coherent and intelligent manner.
Comment by Ed Dailey, Jr. — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 10:09 am UTC
As has been proven by the Muslims that replied to this article, Islam never misses an opportunity to reveal its inherently intolerant and violent side.
Those of you who (foolishly) asked aloud “What if the cartoons had been about Moses or Jesus” are apparently ignorant of the fact that Americans routinely put up with cartoons and commentary that questions (and even at times ridicules) the founders of Judaism and Christianity. We tolerate such cartoons and commentary because that’s the way TOLERANT and PEACEFUL people behave–we realize that “free speech” includes the right to ask hard questions and to make statements that might be offensive to others. Because we are a people of LAW, and because we respect the rights of others to have differing opinions, we allow unfettered “free speech” and understand that “freedom of religion” includes the right to NOT be Muslim, to NOT be Jewish, to NOT be Christian–indeed, the freedom to have NO RELIGION at all, if that’s what a person chooses.
Compare and contrast that with the thuggish and violent nature displayed by the Muslims that have posted here. Your every post contains threats of violence and war, and over what? Cartoons! Line-drawings in a newspaper! Your animalistic instincts control every aspect of your being since your so-called “religion” is nothing but a collection of codified exhortions to violence. You should be ashamed of what you represent–the most vile and base instincts are apparent in your words. Instead, you delude yourselves into thinking that you do the work of “Allah”.
“Free speech” means “free speech”–the West will never surrender that God-given right merely to mollify a savage and violent ideology like Islam, nor the ignorant masses enslaved by it.
Comment by Crusader — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 10:21 am UTC
Til lykke, Jyllands-Posten!
Thanks for sticking to your guns. There are already too many encroachments on free expression here in the West; we cannot afford to give ground to terrorist censors.
Comment by Karl Zimmer — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 10:23 am UTC
Let me ask everyone who keeps saying “how would you feel” or “has this newpaper every done anything against another religion” . . . have you truly never seen the stuff which has come out against Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, etc.? Have you never once heard one person question a religion? Have you never considered that it’s OK for people not to believe in your religion because, after all, it doesn’t effect you?
What is very interesting is that in both Christianity and Islam, the key figures were ridiculed while on Earth and both still represented God. Mankind is still around even after this ridiculing of the prophets, son of God or whatever you choose to believe. Now though there are some which want to satire either Mohammed or the way Islam is used to murder in his name by a few and people want to curtail freedom of speech laws or even give the cartoonists what’s coming to them. Are you people mad or just repressed?
Comment by Chad Evans — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 10:35 am UTC
I do not believe it is a freedom of expression to depict Prophet Muhammed in cartoons. If JP want to critisize Prophet or Islam they can do it. I realy wonder if Jyllands-Posten will exercise their freedom of expression to publish an Article saying that only thousands of jews killed in Holocaust instead of Millions.
Comment by Rahim — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 12:17 pm UTC
Rahim: Why would you equate the publishing of a *lie* with the drawing of cartoons?
Comment by Crusader — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 12:21 pm UTC
Stop cowering! When you are righteous and God is on your side, live fearlessly! Do not cower to the BARBARIC and RABID ways and vitriol of the MUSLIMS that has been passed on after Mohammed’s words were ussurped by the Mongol Hordes that took over the ARAB worlds after MOHAMMED died and spawned a NEW ISLAM after burning the 2,000 versions of ORIGINAL Korans to be re-written by the Khan generals who became the new Mullahs writing their own versions of “skin and boil infidels until their skins peel off or they convert to Islam” … “fooled the DRUGGED ASSASINS by taking them into tents full of vergins and letting them wake up and then re-drugging them and taking them back to their last place of memmory … and then undrugging them … and telling them God has this PARADISE for them if they KILL … JIHAD !!! FOOLISH man …You do not have PROCREATION or VIRGINS in HEAVEN … you are only SOULS as you leave your lustful bodies on EARTH ashes to ashes and dust to dust … JUST AS GOD WANTS IT !!! … or use the sword to convert or chop off the heads … or of the Barbaric vitriol … if that is not what the SATANIC VERSES was about then we are all living in COOKOO LNADS!
MORE later !
Comment by D NgalKan — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 1:26 pm UTC
To summarize, you can’t have “free speech” and then turn around and say “You can’t knock religion”. That type of stance is internally consistent. As human beings, we have the right to discuss things that concern us, INCLUDING religion–and we’re NOT required to be unanimous in the conclusions we reach about Mo, Islam, or any other religious icon or ideology.
Comment by Crusader — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 2:04 pm UTC
Here’s a link to how Mohammad has been portrayed through the ages–there’s nothing new about depicting him:
[ed. including working link]
Comment by Crusader — Tuesday, January 31, 2006 @ 4:05 pm UTC
And here´s a recent caricature from a french newspaper…
http://politiken.dk/VisArtikel.iasp?PageID=434156
Yes, I know… all the text is in danish, but I couldn´t find the picture anywhere else.
Jesus is saying to Mohammed:
“Don´t be so grumpy, Mohammed. We’ve ALL appeared in caricatures…”
Comment by Adam B — Wednesday, February 1, 2006 @ 5:26 am UTC
Jesus is saying to Mohammed:
“Don´t be so grumpy, Mohammed. We’ve ALL appeared in caricatures…â€
that doesn’t mean it was ok 2 put jesus in carictures in the 1st place…dont worry muhammad we al appeared in carictures!!! ur misin the point here, muhammad peace be upon him is not a normal person that u can put in carictures nor can u put jesus peace be upon him. al of these prophets are holy and sacred in the eyes of all muslims!!!
apoplogising is not enuf!!!! no where near enuf!!!
u myt cal it freedom of speech and u gota kno that muslims r not against freedom of speech and that is evident through the biography of the prophet that u dared 2 mok…however u dont seem to be aware of the definition of freedom coz 1 of its conditions is that u dont attack other peoples freedom…yes, the freedom of muslims and their right 2 religious bleief has been attacked and that should be condemned by all HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANISATIONS!!!
for so long people have been saying that muslims are terrrorists, that was your freedom of opinion although it was built on fake propaganda and illusions, nobody questioned or over reacted, this shows the respect us muslims have for freedom of speech, however there r boundries that should not be crossed.
GO AND FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO DO, OTHER THAN MOCKING RELIGIONS (ISLAM OR ANY OTHER RELIGION)THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES HAPPENING IN THIS WORLD AT THIS PRECISE MOMNENT OTHER THAN MOCKING MY ISLAM…THE COMPLETE WAY OF LIFE
Comment by a proud muslim — Wednesday, February 1, 2006 @ 6:17 am UTC
Proud Muslim:
Nobody is apologizing…! I´m practising my right to freedom of speech, and if you´re hurt by what I say, too bad. If you think I´ve broken any laws, sue me. Otherwise argue or flame back or whatever – just don´t break any laws (official boycot) or threaten with violence (most muslim reactions from around the world). Doing any of those two things just shows that you all have no idea what freedom (and free speech) means and further proves the point of the article in question!
No, Mohammed was a perfectly ordinary man – muslims have always been very strict on this point. Mohammed is NOT, contrary to Jesus in christianity, considered divine in any way, and as such, he is just like any other man. Saying something derogatory about him is NOT blasphemy! Only comments about god falls into this category…!
As it was (and this has been pointed out several times already), the point of the article was not to degrade Mohammed, but to point out that muslims all over the world are commiting atrocities on a daily basis in the name of Islam. They are certainly a minority, but the silence of the peaceful majority of muslims are considered by both the fanatics and the people of the west as a sign of acceptance. By taking a much firmer stance against the terrorism of muslim fanatics you would be improving the realtionship and dialogue between you and the western world!!!
Comment by Adam B — Wednesday, February 1, 2006 @ 7:48 am UTC
“that doesn’t mean it was ok 2 put jesus in carictures in the 1st place”
Funny, that´s exactly what the headline claims is ok!
)
“however u dont seem to be aware of the definition of freedom coz 1 of its conditions is that u dont attack other peoples freedom”
No. Read up on the laws of my country before you try to berate me.
“yes, the freedom of muslims and their right 2 religious bleief has been attacked”
No. Nobody has attacked the freedom of muslims to believe what they want. Does the koran say that it´s ok to blow fellow muslims to pieces? Does the quran say that it´s ok to break the laws of other countries because your interpretasion of the koran says differs from these?
“THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES HAPPENING IN THIS WORLD AT THIS PRECISE MOMNENT”
No, there aren’t. There aren’t any more important issues in this world right now than trying to stop radical muslims from killing people right and left all over the world every day!
Comment by Adam B — Wednesday, February 1, 2006 @ 7:56 am UTC
First all non-muslims need to understand one thing. Muslims never draw prophets (including Ibraham, Jesus, and Moses peace be upon them). It is not acceptable in Islam to have a person/actor play Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, or any prophet. Drawing a prophet is also offensive, and unacceptable in Islam. So this is something for the person comparing Muslim’s reactins with other faiths when drawing Jesus or “fat” Buddah.
Yes I am outraged at those cartoons. Some ignorants who know nothing about Islam and nothing about Mohammed PBUH draw such cartoons. If anyone at the JP had any brains they would try to understand something about Islam/Muslims first. Understand before you speak. If attacking other people’s religions is your “freedom”, and if you are now at the peak of your “civilization” then that is sad because you are still way too low.
As for the person called Crusader, yes, you are following the path of your ancestors, the crusaders, who killed thousands when entered Jerusalem. They were so crule and stupid that they even killed the local Chritistians (Kill them and God will sort them out). It took them few weeks to slaughter the population. When muslims took over the city over 100 years later, they let everyone go in peace. They had the choice to leave or live peacefully with others. The jews who were kicked out by the crusaders were invited to live in Jerusalem by the Muslims. Those were all the teaching of the greatest man who ever walked on this earth, the Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him.
STOP your ignorace and read. Understand the teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him)before you call yourself a crusader. Jesus will look at the crusaders entering Hell with a sad look (idiots… that was NOT my message, you are doing exactely the opposite.)
Whether everyone here likes it or not, Islam is the fastest growning religion in the world. The more curious people are about Islam, the more people read about Islam and Mohammed PBUH. The more people dis-cover the real truth and re-vert to Islam.
Peace, Samir.
Comment by Samir — Wednesday, February 1, 2006 @ 8:30 am UTC
Samir and Proud Muslim:
You will *not* succeed in preventing those of us in the West from exercising our *right* to free speech. That right INCLUDES the right to ask hard questions about religions and religious icons, and it INCLUDES the right to make comments that are critical of religions and religious icons. You each invoke the phrase “doing so is offensive to Muslims”–to which I respond “I don’t care”. That’s part of what “free speech” entails–it specifically includes the right to make comments that may upset people of certain “religions”. There is nothing special about YOUR “religion”–its just another belief system and folks who don’t share it have every right to voice their own opinions without bothering to check first and determine whether you would approve or not.
Comment by Crusader — Wednesday, February 1, 2006 @ 9:50 am UTC
How interesting. For those who are saying the cartoons go beyond freedom of speech and call for the censure of such cartoons, the vast majority don’t live in Denmark or anywhere near Denmark based upon your IP addresses. So while you decry the cartoons and those on this site who have stuck up for the cartoons for pushing our culture on yours, in reality you are pushing your culture on the Danish. The protestors in Palestine who are storming the halls of the EU in Palestine are imposing their will upon the entire EU, yet complain all the time that other nations are imposing their will upon them. Quite a double standard.
There are those who argue cartoons should not offend to which I argue, if a cartoon does not evoke emotion it has not done its job. There are those who claim Islam does not allow the drawing of Muhammed, yet we’ve shown you that while that may be an unwritten rule it has been done for centuries, even by Moslems.
There are those who claim no action should offend others, yet probably support those who are burning the flag of Denmark now in protest. Those flags are burnt, presumably, as a message of rebuke to the Danish people. Little do the flag burners know those of us in the West are used to such scenes and only look upon those people with sorrowful pity that they actually think they are doing something worthwhile of their time.
“yes, the freedom of muslims and their right 2 religious bleief has been attacked and that should be condemned by all HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANISATIONS!!!”
No, the freedom of Moslems and the right to believe in what you so choose has not been mocked. What has been mocked is how some people can evoke Muhammed’s name in the brutal killing of thousands of innocents. If Muhammed was the messenger of peace as many of the commenters here claim he was, why do religious fanatics drive cars into crowded markets and scream out “Allah akhbar” right before they detonate their explosive load? They evoke Muhammed’s name and turn many people into believing Islam is far from the religion of peace, but nope, you all seem to be more upset at how people in Demark question this connection than those who have murder thousands of innocents, many of whom are Moslems as well, in your diety’s name. Not one cartoon said that if you believe in Muhammed you are a terrorist. Not one cartoon said you don’t have the right to follow Islam. Have you even seen them?
“Whether everyone here likes it or not, Islam is the fastest growning religion in the world. The more curious people are about Islam, the more people read about Islam and Mohammed PBUH. The more people dis-cover the real truth and re-vert to Islam.”
No one cares if Islam is the fastest growing religion. I have only seen one or two commenters say anything derogatory about Islam. The bulk of the discussion has consisted of one side saying it should have the freedom to draw these cartoons and the other saying no you shouldn’t. Interesting though that you say the people that discover Islam will learn the “real truth and re-vert to Islam.” Revert, of course, insinuates everyone was once a Muslim. So too can that be said that all followers of the Abrhamic religions are all Jews, so when are you going to revert to Judaism? I still haven’t, but I didn’t bring it up.
Comment by Chad Evans — Wednesday, February 1, 2006 @ 11:44 am UTC
Hey Chad–I just read that the cartoons have been picked up and printed in newspapers in Germany, France, and Spain. Evidently freedom of the press/free speech is something that is not going to be beat down by a bunch of whiners burning flags!
Comment by Crusader — Wednesday, February 1, 2006 @ 12:07 pm UTC
I posted about France and Germany, but I had not heard they were picked up in Spain. Thanks for the tip, Crusader.
Two newspapers in Germany and one in Italy reprinted the cartoons, or at least two of them, as well.
Comment by Chad Evans — Wednesday, February 1, 2006 @ 12:25 pm UTC
I am an American Christian. Depictions of the crucifix immersed in urine (Piss Christ), and Mary drawn in dung are personally offensive to me, but I respect the principle of freedom of expression that produced those things. That same principle allows me to openly criticize other peoples beliefs too. That’s what freedom is all about. Instead of threatening to kill those who offend me with their speech, I am obliged to defend them to the point of my own death. Until the Muslim people can understand that principle and live by it, they will never be free.
Comment by Dan in the US — Wednesday, February 1, 2006 @ 2:43 pm UTC
Most people dont understand anti-semitism and confuse that with these cartoons. Anti-semitism is violence against jews, not against a Jewish figure or God.
There was a good civilized debate about “Passion of the Christ” and very very civilized protests too. But not in this case. Death threats, bomb scares… I am sorry, I have my doubts about the religion of peace. And how boldly and quickly some Muslims have resorted to violence and nobody from the religion of peace is condemning such uncivilized threats.
I am aware of the Quranic verses that prohibit any depiction of the prophet. The prophet maybe an important person to Muslims. But to the rest he is just another human being, like anyone else. While Muslims ask others to show respect to their religion and prophet, I ask Muslims to respect our values of freedom of expression and democracy. They are as close to us as ur religion is to you.
I welcome the move by the European Press. Let Muslims boycott all European goods. They should be careful when they throw boycott stones sitting inside a glass building.
Comment by Bill — Wednesday, February 1, 2006 @ 3:14 pm UTC
First of all the muslim religion is the only religion that consider other religions as inferior and therefore is trying to convert every infidel by force to join them.For example the Jewish religion makes it tough to anyone to convert .It’s ok for them to have cartoons depicting jews and Israel as Nazis and to minimize the atrocity of the holocaust but once there is someone depicting them as hatefull and aggresive as they are then they are shocked.
It is about time that Europe reacts and show those who came as guests in our European countrys that they should addapt or LEAVE !!!By the way I’m willing to blow myself up for their cause as they promise 72 virgins in paradise but I want the virgins first because I don’t trust them.
Comment by fanaticsbuster — Wednesday, February 1, 2006 @ 7:39 pm UTC
I just saw the petition and I think we should all sign it, regardless of faith. We need to express that it is not proper for non-muslims in a far-away country to publish mild cartoons commenting political islam and self-censorship, because they have to take into account that there are people out there that cannot stomach mild criticism, and have no concept of satire nor irony. Anyone with me?
Comment by Ans — Wednesday, February 1, 2006 @ 10:34 pm UTC
Chad,
First thank you for the civilized tone. IF we can discuss our difference respectfully, we can understand each other and get to appreciate the different ways of lives, believe systems, and other differences. Again, thank you.
1. We all want, no, Demand Freedom just as we demand Justice for all. No muslim is against freedom. But there is a difference when you have freedom and have boundries which makes you human, and freedom like animals. I sleep with anyone persons wife when is out of town. It is my right. But our society turns into jungle. Practice your freedom and I’ll practice mine. Respect me and I respect you two folds.
2. Journalism is an honorable profession. The goal behind it is to share information to help people improve their lives. Share information to get closer to one anothe and appreciate one another. What can you say about someone who goes to war, risk his life to give the best coverage? very honorable.
JP is shame to this honorable field. It’s knowing to start conterversial issues by offending people (christians in the past or whatever they can think of) when they run out of useful articles to print. By doing so, they curropt the purity of Journalism. Why do you draw a hindu looking guy with a bomb in his turbin and called it Mohammed (PBUH), my prophet. The person I (and all muslims) love more than myself, my father, my mother, and the dearest things to my heart. The more I read about Mohammed (PBUH) and his character I love him more. If you attack my prophet, you’re attacking my religion, if you do that, you’re attacking my way of life, if you do that, you’re attacking my very existace, if you do that, you hurt my feelings, you flare my anger. People are people, some control their anger, some do crazy things.
3. People do not blow themselves up because of “Virgins”, this is one of the misconceptions and stereotypes that have been made about Islam. The force behind such actions is lack of justice and desperation. You take everything away from a person, his land, his job, his life, then before you finish his family off his brother or son will blow himself up in retaliation and because he knows he’s next. NOT BECAUSE OF VIRGINS.
4. When I say Islam is the fastest growing religion and Crusader says “I don’t care”, perfect. Don’t, it’s fine, we can still be friends. But this should tell you something about the prophet of this religion. The man called by a Christians the Most influencial man in human history. Read about the Islamic civilization/Impire and the justice peace during those years. Who’s leading today? whatever they’re doing, there is neither Justice nor Peace (but do fight for peace).
5. Muslims are Terrorists, they blow themselves up. This is a new notion that started in the past few years (in comparision to Islam’s 1400 years of age). It is because the “Civilized” nations who are leading human civilization now (we all take turns), are simple unjust to towards muslims. Muslims lands and lives and cheaper than dirt. Some groups get desperate and see nother way.
After the USSR collapsed, the US had to find another enemy. They came up with Islam, it was announced clearly in 91, the words are still rining in my ears “Our next Enemy is Islam” by US secertery of state back then. What a stupid thing to say. But hey, you have to give your people an enemy.
Lets be civilized and respct each others believes and religion.
Crusader, if you stop calling my Prophet “a murderer, a pedophile, and a thief” (which he was NOT and teaching the opposite, peace), if you stop… maybe we’ll have a two way street between us called Respect Ave. You go this road with me long enough, I’ll end up using “W/Love”. That’s my two cents whether you care or not!
Peace, Samir.
Comment by Samir — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 1:14 am UTC
Heh, well, I wouldn’t call this a “debate,” but it certainly has been entertaining, riling up the Muslim “intellectuals” to claim that “no Muslim is against freedom” (why, just look at the havens of liberty that are Saudi Arabia and Iran!) and preach about how Islam is all about tolerance and respect for other religions, while pausing briefly to proclaim a “war” against people who dare to not follow the sayings of the “Holy” “Prophet.” Yep, we all have the “freedom” to speak and hold our religious beliefs, just as long as the “MUSLIMS!!!” approve of our speech, and our beliefs don’t conflict with what the “Prophet” might have said.
(Note the sneer quotes around “Prophet”? Those are there for a reason. To the nearly 4.8 billion Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, Atheists, and other non-Muslims, Mohammed was, at most, a historical figure with no divine knowledge whatsoever — and that’s even if he is not a two-faced lying cult leader with a taste for pre-pubescent “brides.” Interestingly enough, most of those people manage not to get into a frothing homicidal rage when their religion is benignly mocked with drawings. They also manage not to blow up commuters just because they feel someone, somewhere has done them “injustice”. Here’s an idea — when you are treated “unjustly,” act like a grownup and suck it up. Or pick up a weapon, and go fight the oppressor in an open field, like a man. You’ll lose — Muslims always do! — but at least you’ll go down like a man. Nah, far easier to strap on a bomb and take out a bus full of kids. Bombing unarmed civilians — that’s the way of the mujahid!)
Finally, to those “Muslim scholars” making comparisons to the mockery of Christianity and Judaism — you’ve got to be kidding, right? I keep forgetting all those Catholic edicts against the makers of The Life of Brian, or the Jews calling for Mel Brooks’ head for History of the World, Part I.
Congratulations, Mohamed & Co., on confirming what the JP incident was already indicating: Islam is incompatible with freedom and civilization, since its followers don’t understand either concept. How sad. And apparently, a good number of them think that Islamic law stretches to Denmark. That’s just funny.
Comment by E. Nough — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 2:23 am UTC
I had been reading comments from different writers and came to a point where Western Community is calling it “Freedom of Speech” where as it is not and we (Muslims) is calling it illetracy and ignorance which is quite true. There are millions of Authors who have published it worldwidly that Muhammed Peace Be Upon Him was the best person on this Universe which they wrote after intensive research. Now the controversyere is JP and people from other religion claims that whatever they have done is right and freedom of speech whereas we claims it is not and it is a disrespect to other religions.
I would like all of the spectators and the writers to visit the website at ” http://muhammad.net/bio/profbio.html” which will give you a fair Idea what Prophet Muhammed Peace Be Upon Him was and what he did for the whole mankind.
Here is the quote by one of Non-Muslim “I have studied him – the wonderful man – and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ he must be called the saviour of humanity.”
George Bernard Shaw in “The Genuine Islam ”
“”By a fortune absolutely unique in history, Mohammed is a threefold founder of a nation, of an empire, and of a religion.”
Rev. R. Bosworth-Smith in ”
“Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Warrior, Conqueror of ideas, Restorer of rational beliefs, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty-terrestial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?”
Lamartine, Histotie de la Turquie, Paris 1854,
Vol. 11 pp.276-2727. ”
There are many Quotes about the Greatness of Muhammed (PBUH) on the link which may guide you about the reality. “http://members.tripod.com/iaislam/T100.htm”
I would request as Samir did that we should not point fingures at each other’s religion and if we have something against someone we should study first and if dont get the clarity than we should discuss before we take any STUPID Step.
ISLAM is the fastest growing Religion and our HOLY BOOK “QURAN” still contains the original verses as they were 1400 years ago not like Bible or any other Holy book which were modified as of our own wishes and needs. If someone has the original Bible which was revealed on Jesus will show you that what QURAN and Prophet MUHAMMED PBUH has told the same stuff with an addition to the teaching of improved living and lots of other different things which can lead all of us to Heaven.
ALL MUSLIMS SAY ALLAH-O-AKBAR (ALLAH IS GREAT)
Comment by Muhammed Jehanzaib — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 2:24 am UTC
Hmm… now that I’ve gotten all inflammatory, I should make a few things clear to cool the temperature:
1. I am NOT the proprietor of this site. I’ve never met him, and he is not responsible for the content of my messages.
2. I happen to firmly believe in respecting the rules of other societies — when I visit those societies. So were I to visit Saudi Arabia, I would respect their laws and treat their religion with all the deference an infidel like me can give. No pork? Fine. No beer? Fine. “Honor” killings? …No, not fine, but if that’s your way, I’ll condemn it as savagery and not interfere. Your house, your rules. On the other hand, in my house, it’s my rules, and I’ll eat pork, drink beer, encourage women to wear revealing clothes, and occasionally mock your religious figures. Got it? My house, my rules. Denmark’s land, Denmark’s rules. A Danish newspaper followed Danish law. You don’t like what they printed? Don’t read it.
But hey, apparently Islam makes for no such allowances. Nope, Muslims demand that everyone, everywhere follow their rules. Sorry, Muslims, not how it works — that’s called oppression. Us Westerners tend to bicker amongst ourselves a lot, but when someone tries to oppress us like that, they end up like — well, like the last batch of Muslims who tried to conquer the West.
Comment by E. Nough — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 2:36 am UTC
And apparently some people still don’t get it. It doesn’t matter if Mohammed was a saint. He, like every other person, demigod, and deity in the history of mankind, is subject to questioning and mocking. Yes, that includes Jesus. Yes, that includes Moses. Yes, that includes the God of the Christians, and Buddha, and Confucius, and Zeus, and Isis. Those of us who don’t live in Islamic lands — and thus don’t live under Islamic law — will continue to mock them. If this offends people, I guess they’ll just have to learn to live with being offended.
Comment by E. Nough — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 2:46 am UTC
Oh, Chad… re-verting to Islam does indicate that everyone was born Muslim, yes. If you understand the words Islam and Muslims you’d know what is meant by it. Islam comes from two words, Salm: to submit, and Salam: Peace. Islam is to submit yourself to God and be peaceful. Muslims are submitters and peaceful. They are as peaceful as sheeps (sheeps are very peaceful). Make no mistake about it, The Quran teaches muslims, If rights are taken away, then sheep turns into a lion. Muslims must “struggle” to gain righs back. Struggle = Jihad. One way of Struggle is fighting, highest way is self-struggle. It must be mentioned here that Quran teaches not to harm civilians, animals, and plants even in wars. Some people find themselves helpless, they drag civilians into it… which is taugh, sad, and wrong. But how do we stop it? JUSTICE is the only answer. Give people justice and they would only worry about feeding their kids and being good citizens.
E.nough…
I’m sorry, but I swear your comment “Islam is incompatible with freedom and civilization” made me laugh. You’re just out of this world aren’t ya? lol.
Again, I have no problem with anyone questioning my belief, otherwise it would a wonderful world (yes, I mean everyone would be Muslim). Why can’t we discuss our differences with some respect?
E.nough, Learn to disucss and debate with respect to people’s beliefs and faiths or get lost, because you’re lossing your self-respect. Jesus will look you in the eye in your way to hell and say “That was not my teachings, I asked you to follow Mohammed (=Holy Spirit) who is coming after me and spoke ill of the seal of prophets? stay cool.”. Keep you tongue in E.nough. The Prophet (PBUH) warned of the tongue throwing people in hell. Keep your tongue clean and polite. Speak with respect or it will take you to hot places, but you don’t care now I’m sure.
Sorry I have too many issues to attend to and will not be able to continue this “debate”. Especially with the presence of bigots like yourself.
P.S. Islam is the only religion in the world supporting Christianity that Jesus was sent (prophet) by Allah from his virgin mother Mary peace be upon them both.
P.S.S. to all of you, Muslims and non-muslims: Mohammed PBUH is your prophet. He was sent to the entire mankind. Both Moses and Jesus clearly said “I was sent to the Jews”. It’s about time you start reading unbiased books about your prophet and see what God sent you through him. Don’t care? fine, I’ve done my part.
P.S.S.S. With respect to others, E.nough: if I do meet you in person I will greet you with a spit in the face and a slap for one reason: Unrespectful post and talking ill about Mohammed. When you don’t respect others, you loos your self-respect and become low enough where it is ok to spit at your ugly face, not only OK, but recommended in order to clean you up. Your choice, I can write to you at the end “Respectfully Yours”, or “W/Love”, or SPIT at your face. You have earned yours my dear bigot.
For everyone else, Respectfully yours & Peace…
Samir.
Comment by Samir — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 4:02 am UTC
First all, I would like to tell everybody a point in the Islam religion,, any muslim do not believe in any other religions he`s not a muslim.. because believing in Christian & Judaism and there Prophets is a basic condition to be a muslim.. that means, as we do not accept any insult for Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) we dont accept it for Prophets Jesus and Moses too, that means we respect the other religions, and who says that Muslims hates and wants to kill Jewishs and Christians are wrong, maybe someone will say that there is many of muslims killing and bombing christians and jewishes.. even so, the problem between them its not a religions, its about history and lands and strength.. how come there are a muslims and they also killing muslims too??!! but you only see what they do in USA and UK and other countries and didnt see what they also do in Muslims Countries!
and Islam never ask to kill citizens specially kids, oldmen and oldwomen, and who kill them are not a muslim in islam, and to be sure of that, there was a Jewish man who was a Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) neighbor, and the Prophet never did anything wrong to him, and the story said,, when the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) didn’t see that man for a while,, he went to visit him and see if he is fine or not and found him sick and he asked God to give him a good health.. that means there is forgiveness and peace
and about the past, in Muhammad (PBUH) age, yes there was a many wars between muslims and christians and jewishes,, and there was a treaties, but the Prophet (PBUH) didn’t revocation the treaties,, I wish when someone want to say anything to be sure of what he`s saying and read good before he say anything, and never read from one side and let your brain decide.
And about women.. Islam was the first who defended women.. in past many of people was burying alive girls, and Islam inviolable that.. and Islam gives rights to women.
if Christians agree to anyone insult Jesus in anyway, or Jewishes agree to anyone to insult Moses in anyway.. We “Muslims” never agree or accept to anyone insult the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).. because it will be insult to all muslims and Islam.. we will never accept to anyone in future to make a sex film for the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as they did with the Prophet Jesus… and we never accept that for any Prophet.
But what I cant understand it… why when someone say anything about Judaism or Anti-Semitic or deny the Holocaust will be under law?? Why its not allowed to anyone to deny the Holocaust or to be Anti-Semitic and its allowed to despise in Prophets? Why there is no freedom of speech about deny the Holocaust or Anti- Semitic ??
*Notice: I didn’t say that because I`m one of them.. Just to tell you that there is enmity for Islam and Muslims and there is not fair.. and only the strong who control the world.
Best Regards
Yahia
Comment by Yahia — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 6:47 am UTC
I like how Samir attempts to pen in the debate: before we even start any discussion, I have to “respect” the beliefs of Muslims, which apparently means that I have to actually abide by those beliefs. Screw that. Muslims apparently are unable to respect the ecumenical belief of most of the world’s Americans, Europeans, and many others as well: the belief that a human being has the right to speak his mind, even when other human beings find that speech offensive. The JP incident proves that point rather clearly, no? That’s what I mean by “incompatible with freedom and civilization.” Islam clearly has problems with both.
And I don’t really care what the “Prophet” Mohammed (pigs breed upon him) said about whom he was sent to, and who will go to hell. Most of the world has rejected him as a prophet, including me. (In what I’m sure is just a coincidence, this is also the portion of the world that generally does not carry out suicide bombings. Yep. Pure coincidence.) I never had any issue with respecting people’s beliefs, including those of individual Muslims. But once “respecting” people’s beliefs includes being threatened with physical violence for saying something they don’t like — be it bomb threats against Danish newspapers, or slap threats from the likes of Samir — well, my respect evaporates rather quickly.
As for Yahia’s grand insight — Jew-hatred is the stock in trade of the Arab world, and we see anti-Jewish propaganda — Mein Kampf, Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the blood libel — constantly. Iran’s fruitcake leader just made Holocaust denial a state policy. Saudi Arabia confiscates personal items from Christians, will not allow the building of churches, and jails people for publicly displaying beliefs other than Islam. Where are all the calls for violence against that? Where are the bomb threats, the daily beatings, the boycotts? …Oh, right, there aren’t any — because the people these things offend are not followers of the “Prophet” and his “Religion of Peace.”
Comment by E. Nough — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 7:27 am UTC
Just a slightly off topic comment:
There´s way to much preaching here! I´m an atheist, and as such believe in neither god nor the divine sights and revelations of any “prophet”, be it Jesus or Moses or Mohammed – I´m certainly no child of theirs… in fact, my opinion is that much of what’s wrong in this world today comes from religion and this entire topic goes a long way in proving my point!
Samir:
For someone claiming to be a follower of a peaceful religion, telling someone that you would spit in his face and hit him afterwards contrasts sharply with your claims, but then again, that´s exactly the point of the article and this entire discussion…!
Comment by Adam B — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 7:28 am UTC
Yahia:
It´s NOT illegal to deny the Holocaust, at least not in my country. It´s extremely bad form, to be sure, since we have plenty of proof that it happened – thousands of eyewitnesses are still alive around the world, but it´s not illegal!
Being anti-semitic is NOT illegal either, in so far as it doesn’t involve threats towards jews or the discrimination of same.
That’s freedom of speech! The right to say what you want but not to incite to violence, mistreatment or discrimination of others. If you say something that´s obviously false, you are of course subject to any lawsuits coming your way…!
Comment by Adam B — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 7:38 am UTC
John Lennon had it right. “Imagine no religion”. People of any faith seem to have a hard time understanding the base of religion using it to their own ends and not for the betterment of society.
Christians have been famous for it as have the Jewish faith. All misusing God to for purposes that cause misery to the world.
Kepping to the path that we, as a species, are setting for ourselves I see another major war in our future that will bode ill for everyone no matter who “wins”
We need to get over ourselves and know that any “Supreme Being” never intended this for us. As with many things we have polluted it.
Comment by Tom Finn — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 9:46 am UTC
Islamaniacs never miss a chance to prove that their belief system is incompatible with the freedoms of a democratic society. The many Muslims who have waltzed into this thread proclaiming “peace” while simultaneously demanding that the others shut up and bow down to their religious dogma illustrate that perfectly.
Here’s a win/win solution: if Muslims don’t honestly believe in and respect the rights of others to disagree with their beliefs, stay the hell out of countries that aren’t Muslim.
Comment by Crusader — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 10:05 am UTC
Samir:
If an animal like you ever spit in my face or that of a friend, you’d be meeting Allah a lot quicker than you may have imagined.
Comment by Crusader — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 10:07 am UTC
The Islamic response to the recent cartoons suggests a remarkable lack of perspective.It seems likely that most of the protestors have not seen the cartoons and are in fact responding to the judgements of figures of religious authority.It is a long,tired fact of history,east and west,that religious leaders regularly exploit their claims to special,revealed knowledge to maintain power and control. They also seek to arouse believer fervour by manipulative display of such knowledge.This affair is insulting to Islam because it portrays a religion of unreflective masses manipulated by leaders.Unfortunately the insult seeems no distortion of Islam’s actual status
Comment by tom mulhern — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 4:03 pm UTC
At the end of the day, this whole incident has very little, if anything, to do with either Islam as a religion or the sainthood of Mohammed PBUH.
You don’t have to go too far back in history to find Europeans gladly burn people of any eccentricity alive at the stake in the name of religion (the infamous witch hunt). To date, the holy crusade remains one of the largest documented cause for Europe’s population loss.
However, today nobody in his/her right mind would call Christianity a barbaric belief system simply because of its dark & violent past.
Similarly, attacking Islam as a religion and criticizing Mohammed’s personal characters from a modern western perspective would be not only counter-productive, but also historically ignorant. It is not religious beliefs that kill people, it is PEOPLE that kill people. This is equally applicable to witch burners and the bus bombers.
Coming back to Islam: in the 80′s the predominantly Islamic state of Malaysia was ranked among the “4 little dragons” due to its rapic ascension to economic prosperity. So no, the violence and killings are not because of Islam, but may quite possibly be inspite of it.
As a firm upholder of freedom of speech myself, and an exile from a country practising political censorship, I think it behooves us all to remember that freedom of speech was by no means, as some people suggested, granted by God, or an idea inherent in human.
In fact, remember Galileo and Copernicus? These poor good christians definitely were not given the same right to freedom of speech, and their oppressors most certainly weren their fellow europeans reading the same Bible.
These examples are not quoted here to spite or insult Christians, but to remind us that it took the western society centuries of wars and millions of deaths to finally realize that you cannot kill off everybody holding a different opinion or worshiping a different God; that swords or guns ultimately bring death to not just one’s enemy, but also one’s friends, family and oneself; that only mutual understanding, respect and trust, not bigger bombs, can guarantee mutual security and prosperity; that we came to this universe not to kill one another in the name of land or a proclaimed just cause, but to explore, invent, create, love and experience; that human life is utmostly important and precious.
The same ideas will take a while to sink into the Muslim hearts and minds. If you think that the truth is on this side of the fence, that the west is a more advanced human society, then give your muslim brethrens a little time. As a more advanced and sophisticated form of being, let’s try to understand, and TOLERATE the fact that much like you hold dear to your heart the freedom of speech, these other human beings with equal souls hold dear to their hearts the purity and holiness of their prophet. If we are to live in the same society, we both have to nudge a little bit.
If we are to co-exist in this world, if we are to enjoy the prosperity and fortunes brought by the global economy, if we believe a diverse society benefits us all, then we must admit, a muslim man’s value, even if you disagree with it, is just as important as a secular westerner’s value, in a democratic system.
In my mind, the real crux of this tiny planet’s biggest hot issue, is not Islam, or Mohammed PBUH, or Jesus & Bhudda.
The real question, is exactly what causes the Arabic perception of western oppression. Is it oil? Is it Israel? Is it colonial history? Or the Arab society simply has not been able to catch up with the modern world?
More importantly, how do we fix the situation? I dream for the day when a muslim appreciates a joke about his religion just as a Danish does, but before that day dawns upon us let’s figure out how the mid-east population can achieve nearly the same level of prosperity, education, healthcare, democracy, and most importantly, security and safety enjoyed by Europeans.
To my Arab friends I say, stop fixating on others’ riducules and start building your home. Allah blessed the Arabs with vast riches of oil, he surely also blessed them with vast wisdom to build a better society.
Comment by Kyle — Thursday, February 2, 2006 @ 10:15 pm UTC
i am so disappointed with the number of people who miss the point of publishing the article in the first place. it has to do reinforcing democracy in a country that is already democratic by constitution. i admit, there are better ways of doing so – just writing the article without adding in the cartoons might do adequately, and publishing the cartoons is inconsiderate to many sensible, agreeable, devout muslims… however, i am glad that this event occurred because it brings an explosive problem to surface and gives us no choice but to deal with this problem once and for all instead of avoiding it under the shield of ‘tolerance’ when in fact it is more like ‘forced restraint’ (which probably would not hold on much longer anyway!). i am really sorry to all muslims who are abhorred at having their religious figure mocked, but i also ask them to keep their minds open and see the purpose of the article for what it is and not as an excuse to vent whatever anger or frustration they feel against the West or non-muslims for other reasons irrelevant to freedom of expression. the article does not aim to trigger religious hatred. it is a resistance in democratic states against submitting to fear, double-standards, and backward governments.
Comment by rita — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 2:11 am UTC
What I find really sad is these people who immigrate to one country and try to impose their culture and religion. I feel disgusted at these people who threaten and harass the indigenous citizens of a country not just Denmark. Today some crazy radicals attacked the Danish Embassy in Indonesia… wouldn’t it be a sight to see if we attached the Iranian Embassy after their Holocaust rejectionism. The fact of the matter is, Christians are more tolerant than muslims.. I’ll be happy when the day comes when Catholic Churches can be built with Crosses publicly displayed in Saudi Arabia vis-a-vis the Grand Mosque in Rome. So my message to the Muslims is.. dont be too hot headed that you are being offended, look at the mirror once in a while and see you’re not clean also.
Comment by Cesar of Manila — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 5:52 am UTC
I agree completely with Cesar of Manila. Indigenous citizens should have a right to make their own laws, and immigrants should abide by those rules or leave. His comment about the Iranian embasy is a good example.
Comment by Debbie — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 7:55 am UTC
1st :I want 2 say I’m a Muslim & I as well as the majority of Muslims refuse terrorism in all its forms, so know that if u assume that there are a million “Muslim” bombers there are almost a billion Muslims that live a regular life just like u that don’t agree with these bombers.
2nd: Islam isn’t the reason those bombers attack u, although I don’t agree with the bombers’ ideas but I got to admit that as Newton said “4 every action there is a reaction†& so the real reason 4 these attacks is the Israeli occupation of Palestine + western military & economic invasion of our countries, If Islam was a religion of terror, if we were brainwashed reapers, then why don’t we attack China, Japan, and South America???? We got Christians n our countries y don’t we commit hate crimes? I think the reason is obvious, its coz they never caused us harm…
Those cartoons & the mocking I read in some comments (from both muslims & westerns) will make things only worse, the solution is solving the Palestinian case & respecting our freedom of belief & then I think we can change the west-Islam relationship from a struggle 4 domination 2 cooperation
finally,imagine if someone came & took ur home & kicked u out,thats what happend 2 my dad n palestine & millions others,what would u do if u were n their position?? u wont just stand & watch…
Comment by RaVeN — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 9:37 am UTC
To hell with the muslims and their backward crap.
Comment by RJM — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 10:14 am UTC
Who gives a rat’s–
Comment by Bill Daleey — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 10:16 am UTC
In response to the above, just move on and make a new life, and stop killing and destroying others, The “Muz” have done nothing to make this world a better place. They treat women like animals, and make pig pens of anyplace they live.
Every fiber of your being is terriorist, and hateful.
Comment by Ann Parker — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 10:31 am UTC
Good point Raven, I personally don’t think Muslims are violent and intolerant people, on the contrary you are like most people who want to live peacefully.. my only qualm is… if the greater majority of you are ‘moderate’ like you seem to be, there is obviously a lack of action from you guys. If you stamp out the radicals in your society, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
You shouldn’t be angry at the west and non-muslims for having a negative image of your religion. The inaction of your majority could be perceived as tolerance or worse — support for the radicals who are hell bent on harming the rest of the world.
Comment by Cesar of Manila — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 10:36 am UTC
You wont the old osmanisc or Barbar islamisch.
Siz dek durmayacaksiniz bence kaşınıyorsunuz. Eski layik olduğunuz yere geri gönderileceksiniz.
Selamlar
Comment by Sefer Aytekin — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 10:55 am UTC
RaVeN, I must say I largely agree with you. I hope more of your Muslim
compatriots see things with a cool mind like you do, instead of immediately
resort to the base instinct. The images of Palestinians brandishing AK-47s in
front of the EU office hurts Palestine and Islam much much more than it hurts
Europe. Nearly a century of vicious cycle of blood has not taught these people a
single thing.
While most people seem to fixate on religion and free speech, they don’t realize
those are only the surface of the issue. Underneath this facade the real problem
is the historical wounds and the current economic and political plight in the
middle east.
This situatoin is similar to the anti-Japanese demonstrations last year in China.
Under the seemingly stupid surface problem of the shrine visit by the Japanese
PM, the essence of the real issue is the hatred planted during WWII and the
strategic competition over natural resources under the sea between the two
countries.
In this age of massive material fortune, people in the west seem to have
difficulty understanding the mentality of the indigenous people of their former
colonies. It is not a coincidence that a handleful of these former colonies
scattered in Africa, Asia and South America recently voted for leftist or
nationalist governments, while Europe and even Canada is leaning to the right.
The election victory of Hamaz perfectly epitomized this trend. If Condi Rice was
truly caught by surprise, it speaks volume about how pathetically little we
understand the middle-east.
I was born and raised in a formerly colonized country (not a muslim country), but have been educated and living in the west ever since. So I guess I have a bit more intuitive understanding of the mentality and perspective of muslims in the mid-east, although I don’t necessarily agree with it.
From the Arab eyes, the cartoons are not just a satire of a religious figure, but the condescending Europeans attitude toward the Arabs. What Europeans deem as nothing more than just another piece of political satire, the Arabs associate it with the feeling of frustration in their difficult political and economical reality. Right or wrong, the Arabs attribute their sufferings to the west — Europe, US and Israel. From the Arab eye, the (perceived) European disrespect for their belief system, thus their way of life, is strongly correlated with a (perceived) western oppression.
This is exactly why so many muslims have repeatedly claimed that this isn’t a free speech issue, because in their minds what they are fighting against is not the Danish right to say and publish what they want, but the (perceived) European animosity and disrespect toward Arabs rooted in the colonial history.
This is also why both side of this whole debate accuse the other side of being ignorant and not understanding: we TRULY are shouting in different frequencies, on different levels, and about different things here. Until we try to understand the other side’s reasoning (instead of frivolously accusing the other side simply cannot reason) and logics, there is no hope of understanding, and, peace.
India recently dressed down to the US embassador for his “irresponsible remarks” regarding how India should vote in IAEA on Iranian nuclear ambition. The US embassador obviously also has difficulty understanding that although European colonization has long ended, the rippling psychological effects are still live and kicking in the former colonies, taking various forms, popping up to the surface at surprising times, producing potentially disastrous effects.
Until we in the west face up to this reality, view things not just on a practical but also historical plane, not just from a modern secular and democratic perspective, but also a muslim, or Hindu, or Chinese perspective, we will continue to be surprised.
Comment by Kyle — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 12:23 pm UTC
Comment by Adnan — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 1:50 pm UTC
The more Muslims demand “respect” for someone that the rest of us don’t even believe in, the more the world will awaken to the fact that Islam is fundamentally incompatible with the rights afforded us in a free democracy.
Comment by Crusader — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 2:28 pm UTC
Yes Chad Evans, we have seen the stuff which has come out against Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, etc.. But what is the difference between u and us? Is that we Muslims respect our religion and stand up for it not like u guys who laugh when they see a cartoon and scream out: it’s the freedom of speech Duh!!. You say its Freedom of speech I say too Its freedom of speech for us to say what we wana say, and if u don’t like it, I don’t care..
?
And hey E. Nough watch out wherever u are!,You will never know how or when can Allah crush u like an ant and show u how it is lovely to burn in hell FOREVER! I know now u will laugh and continue ur blablabla replies.. BUT hey Mr. ! We will meet on the Judgment day, and there I will ask u how u feeling today
Peace
Comment by La Ellah ELa Allah — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 3:09 pm UTC
La Ellah Ela Allah:
The point has *never* been that you aren’t allowed to complain. Rather, the point is that many in the Muslim world have threatened VIOLENCE over a couple of silly cartoons. Acts such as that serve to remind the rest of us just exactly how out of touch Muslims are with the rights we have in a democratic society.
Comment by Crusader — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 3:12 pm UTC
Too bad for the people who are so upset. I hope
their soles burn up with anger. This is as silly
as it gets. It’s your religion, (I would say cult).
It’s not sacred, nothing is, least of that criminal
mohammad. (momo to friends). Read that silly book,
it tells it all.
Comment by RJM — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 3:20 pm UTC
RJM YOU Only read one book ! Nice…And that book should teach u everythying u need to know! And how do u make sure that the information ur reading is correct! Come on..Wake up! Educate Urself! or wait untill the truth is revealed !!
Comment by Sara — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 3:29 pm UTC
I was not going to comment on this thread anymore, but there was a comment directed to me so I’ll respond. For those unaware, I am the owner of this site and the comments on this thread do not necessarily reflect my vantage point nor the opinions of the other contributors.
To answer La Ellah Ela Allahm, Sara, or whatever other name you wish to go by, who said:
Do not think that just because we feel it is a freedom of speech issue to mock religious figures is not because we do not respect our religion. You do have the right to speak out against the cartoons, very true, and I have no problem with the peaceful protests, boycotts or other means of frustration against these cartoons. I don’t think anyone on this thread, with the very few exceptions who have called for violence, has a problem with that. For many of us in the West, we do believe such basic human rights are afforded to us by a divine power. One of those is a freedom of speech and these cartoons fall right in line with what many of us believe is our right as humans to do. It doesn’t make them right, nor does it make them wrong.
My problem is that there are people who have stormed embassies, threatened beheadings, issued fatwas asking for violence, targeted Danish soldiers, targeted Danish citizens, taken hostages, targeted all non-Arab citizens, etc., etc., etc. in the wake of these stupid cartoons. You might consider the cartoons blasphemous, and indeed they may be depending on which religion you choose to follow, but is it not against Allah’s will to target innocents because of blasphemy?
While there are thousands of Muslims speaking out against these cartoons, just once would the Western world like to see this number of people protest against those within your own religion who are using the Koran as justification to slaughter thousands upon thousands of innocents regardless of their religious affinity. Where are the protests against the repeated car bomb attacks against Iraqi Mulsims? Where are the protests against the regime of Iran who believes it’s perfectly fine to stone women to death for being raped? Where are the protests against religious figures who have taken what some of the commenters say is a religion of peace and turned it into the symbol for bloodthirsty oppression?
Until then, you don’t have anything to speak about without sounding hollow. You’re protesting against the wrong thing.
Comment by Chad Evans — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 3:42 pm UTC
Kyle:
Very well-thought-out and phrased comment! I don’t neccesesarily agree with all your points, but your tone is certainly in a class of it´s own in this discussion!
To Raven’s comment I just feel the need to add: For every action there is a reaction…? The problem is, most westerners see the actions of the muslims as being the first, in contrast to how many muslims see it. How to overcome this? Well, I just wish you’d sit back and look at the levels of reactions…
The danes print a cartoon of your prophet with a bomb for a hat, trying to show the image that radical muslims have given Islam in the west – Muslims all over the world promise death and destruction to all danes, regardless of whether they agree with the message of the newspaper.
Muslims kill hundreds of people every day for the last 50 years, muslims and westerners alike. The west urges for peace and, in the case of official suppoert of these actions, ennact economic sanctions towards said countries, until they stop their support.
Now, which of these two scenarios seem more reasonable to you?
As a final comment to this iscussion as a whole:
Why the constant hints towards the histories of the various religions? It doesn’t matter what either religion did several hundred years ago. Christian have done horrible things in the name of their religion an so have muslims, jews, hindus and the followers of all other religions to ever exist. What matters is what is happening now. Christianity underwent a reformation several hundred years ago, and the result, as we can see today, are societies that, to a large degree, can accept differences within their community. It is high time that Islam underwent a similar reformation and entered the modern age – this will in no way diminish the faith of it’s followers – on the contrary, it will sterengthen their position in the modern world, as opposed to outside it!
Comment by Adam — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 4:14 pm UTC
Ched:
Yes! Yes! Yes!
How can it be said any clearer?!
How can muslims quietly look on as innocent people are being killed in the name of their religion?!?!?
As long as the supposedly huge majority of peaceful muslims do not take offence at these actions, whether we’re talking about the killings of rape victims in Iran, the murder of innocents in the streets of Iraq, the execution of students in Chechnya or the blatant discrimination of other religions in Saudi Arabia, the people of the west will see Islam as a serious threat to all that we deem valuable!
It is essential that moderate muslims show that they will not quietly accept to see their religion abused by fanatics. This, more than anything else, will aid in the peacefull coexistance of Islam with the other religions of the world!
Comment by Adam — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 4:26 pm UTC
Yo this world is totaly messed up,the people in the middle east can burn our flags on tv stamp on them and say what ever they want,but when we make fun its totaly out of order,whats ood for1 is good 4 the other and if none of u like it then u no where u can go aint it.
Comment by wrighte — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 5:27 pm UTC
The world needs this problem to be delth with fast we have got enough crap to deal with than wasting our time on this rubbish…….and you can take that to the bank
Comment by wrighte — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 5:36 pm UTC
there has been alot of good points sed on this board. i am a practising muslim and find the cartoon extremely degrading and disgusting because it is desicrating my prophet.
however i am completely against the innocent killings that are being done in the “name” of islam. my religion is completely against it. the actions of a few extremists have tarnished the majority. being part of the muslim community i can state that we try our best to highlight our disgust for ppl that do these sorts of attacks however often media does not cover it. wot can be dun about this? afterall u surely cannot expect us to all travel bk to those countrys and stop the attacks!
RJM you are intitled to your opinion of the prophet mohammed (pBUH). however how can you judge a character without knowing anything about him? read unbiased material about him but plz do not jump to slate sumone otherwise!
Comment by haaris — Friday, February 3, 2006 @ 5:53 pm UTC
Dear Muslim friends, Astafirullah hiazeem. I think there is no use to discuss about Ph. Mohammed (PBUH)with the kaffir. They don’t UNDERSTAND about our belief. Whatever you say, the kaffir won’t believe it and perhaps Allah has closed their heart ….Massyaallah!
Comment by Non-Arab Muslim Brother — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 1:36 am UTC
These Kafirs, they could’nt recognise what our belief is. They cannot do anything to our religion as they wish to do. Our prophet PBUH is the best of all that Almighty Allah created. They cannot do anything by publishing his cartoons. The world and the creatures, Allah created for him. Definitely these Kaffir’s will be thrown into ashtray for what they have drawn. Allah Akbar, Allah Akbar, Allah Akbar. Mohamed is his last and final prophet.
Comment by Ali Abdullah — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 2:24 am UTC
i agree with people who said that modern muslims should stand up against extremists that r doin the killin’ n the name of islam,i hope that after these cartoons they can see what their image has become n the west & so start taking action seriously.
but still we shouldnt forget that the main point n stopin terror is stopin the reason those bombers use 2 justify their actions & thats isreali & U.S invasion of parts of the muslim world & all the killin & suffering that comes with that,if that stops im sure that bombings will stop.
adam is saying 4 50 years muslims have been killing people,thats true,but adam u must also admit that in those 50 years the U.S & isreal have killed lots & lots of people! just in iraq a million childern died of starvation during sanctions,not 2 mention the peoples suffering in palestine,so u see this is a spiral of violence i hope that u & muslims realise that this stops not by more war but with more peace…
one more thing,ann u say
“Every fiber of your being is terriorist, and hateful.”
will that sure reflects how “loving” r the “fibers” u ann r made of !!
Comment by Raven — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 2:55 am UTC
Well this is an odd prediciment isnt it. I don’t really even see or understand why anyone in the west should even give a rats ass about offending people in the middle east. I am so sorry if people would be offended by a picture like that. The middle east is a backwash of crappy ass countries with minorities of radical people. I say fuck them turn the desert into glass. I can assure you that in Saudi Arabia people print bad cartoons of the U.S. all the time. Why don’t we just launch some missles over there and just say fuck it I don’t care where they land. Blast every country back into the stone age and just ride on.
Comment by Coolons — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 6:09 am UTC
Interesting to read all the perspectives. Though no expert on history, it seems obvious that past injustices take years, even decades or centuries to get over. What we say or do today might very well take many years for others to forget. Many of us are still fighting the battles of injustices caused by or suffered by our grandfathers.
It seems that the majority of the hatred felt by Muslims towards westerners stems from one crucial point in time. That is when the US and the UK made the questionable decision to take land predominantly inhabited by Arab Muslims and give it to many Jews displaced from Europe. They felt bad for them for the incredible suffering they had endured at the hands of the Nazis. I also believe there was some thought to the re-establishment of a Jewish state as fortold in the Bible. Many would also argue that this was a way for the Europeans to get Jews more out of Europe. Regardless the reasons, the result was clear. Arabs in that region and all over the Mid-east have resented the decision and their actions stem from the sentiment that “You consider Arabs unimportant and not worth considering in your decision”. You have to think about how you would feel if someone came into your state or country and displaced all the inhabitants and said “We’re giving this land to these folks, live with it.” How many decades would it take you to get over it? Could you see yourself resorting to violence to reverse the action?
I myself am not violent, don’t own a gun, am a believer in Jesus Christ, and don’t advocate anyone using violence to get what they want. But I do have the ability to put myself in the other guys shoes and consider what might lead someone to do what they do. I believe that this cycle of violence and hatred will not end until the people in Palestine get their land back. I am not anti-Jewish at all. I believe that my religion is based on theirs. I love them, Muslims, Christians, Buddists, Hindus, Atheists and all Gods people. It’s the decision that was made after WWII that I see as the problem, not the Jewish people.
It’s an intersting cycle. Westerners displaced Arabs, Arabs fought against it violently, Westerners accuse Arabs and Muslims of being violent terrorists, many Arab Muslims reinforce that image by being violent terrorists. How could it end? First, the people causing the violence need to believe that coming to the table to talk will get the justice they so strongly desire. Second the people on the other side of the table need to respect the very valid concerns and be willing to make the changes required to bring about justice. Does anyone see where this is leading? I’m sorry to say that the only solution that would end Arab Muslim violence would be for the Jewish people to pull out of the region. Anyone see that happening in their lifetime? Didn’t think so. Me either.
I personally believe this cartoon is not the issue.
Somehow hoping to see peace and harmony between all peoples,
Swampdog
Comment by Swampdog — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 7:59 am UTC
Current western society is characterized by its lack of moral and its belief that any one can say anything about anyone at any time. U just need to look at a typical western family where affection and respect between the members is almost the thing of the past. Adultery, Incest, sodomy is quite is normal and is rarely discouraged.
Family is the building block of each society. Disintegration of the family is an early sign of things to come. Every society has its progress curve. The current western society had reached their peak long ago and the curve has already started to go down.
The west is mainly Christian but the respect they show for this belief minimal. It was this disrespect that freed them from the shackles of the church during the renaissance period. But now they are over-doing it to the point of making Christianity and other religions a mockery.
It is as if a tree, in order to fly, is axing it self from the ground. It has forgotten the place from where it sprouted and from where it receives nourishment.
In attaining high tech lives they have lost touch with their human side. To them being human is following instinct. They have mistaken their animal needs as their long lost & forgotten human side.
Forgive me but here in the East it is difficult to understand that freedom of speech does not mean being immoral or showing disrespect to anyone.
The East still has morals values and beliefs, and due to this it will over take the west in a decade or two. The west is so obsessed with the ‘individual’ that it can not comprehend the emotion that a person can value another more than his/her own life.
It is because of these high moral values that the Muslims have become mad over the Danish newspapers disrespect for Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).
By doing so, the Danes have done nothing to harm the Muslims except arouse their emotions. In fact, they (and those that stand by them) have only shown a reason to perish
Comment by Tajwali Khan — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 8:23 am UTC
That is true Tajwali Khan, i’m only wondering if why do many Muslims keep coming to Europe? Be good samaritans and teach the morally-bankrupt non-muslims?
Comment by Cesar of Manila — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 10:25 am UTC
NON OF THE MOSLEEM KNOWS MUHAMMAD’S FACE LOOKS LIKE BUT THESE PEOPLE WHO CLAIM THEM SELF AS THE RIGHTOUS PERSONS TRY TO DISTURB THE MOSLEEM’S FAITH, BUT ONE THING THAT THEY ALSO KNOW THAT ISLAM IS AREASONABLE RELIGION AND IT CAME FROM GOD,THE SAME GOD WHO MADE MOSES AND ISA ( JESUS ) BECAME A PROPHET, BUT THEY TRY TO KEEP THIS OUT OFF THEIR OWN MIND EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW THAT ISLAM IS THE TRUTH, HAVE THEY EVER THOUGHT TO WHOM THEY WILL RETURN ?
Comment by sjawai — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 10:48 am UTC
Wow,
1) First the holiday/Christmas controversy here in the States and now this!
2) I’m in the US Army over here in Ay-ay-ay-raq and it boggles my mind the blind allegiance these people have to their religious hierarchy. We [Christians] had similar “issues” and them some guy named Martin Luther started nailing signs on doors and we had a Reformation (and a Counter Reformation). That was nearly 500 years ago. These people refuse to change.
3) Today I saw a 8-10 year old kid burning a Danish flag. I wanted to throw up. I’m sure he’ll grow up well-adjusted. Maybe Islam is a relgion of peace in theory, but the radical elements have taken the helm and spread the message of hate, intolerance and lunacy in the madrasas and in the Whahabi Sect.
4) The car-burning is France was just the beginning. Instead of spreading Islam with the sword as in years past, they’re slowing sneaking into our culture. Doesn’t anyone remember the cheers from Patterson, New Jersey on 9/11?
Comment by Rick H — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 10:53 am UTC
In Muslim countries, cartoons, newspaper articales and television shows call Jews pigs and apes. They continually publish anti-Jewish pieces… and thats completely ok. But if Europeans start making cartoons… oh no its now injustice and prejudice.
Islamic law does not apply to newspapers published in the West and Muslims cannot expect to be able impose Islamic law on non-Muslims. Muslims need to appreciate that their religion (and therefore Mohammed) is sacred only to themselves. If they have faith then no amount of cartoons in western newspapers should matter.
Muslims in Europe should have known this before they came and lived by indigenous atheist and christian europeans. Citizenship entails accepting the culture, norms and system of your host country. Dont impose yours if you dont want conflict.
Comment by Cesar of Manila — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 10:55 am UTC
Excellent points Rich H. sjawai says “[Islam] CAME FROM GOD,THE SAME GOD WHO MADE MOSES AND ISA ( JESUS )”. In the beginning, Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worshipped the same God and referred to the Old Testament as their scriptures. The Jews still live by the scriptures as the Christians do (along with the New Testament).
Mohammed (who was a human being just like Moses, Abraham and Issac) actually led people away from those scriptures and toward his own personal version/writings, which he made up out of his own mind/visions/hallucinations/whatever. I see so evidence that these vioilent muslims practice any of the original scriptures of God. They worship and follow the Qu’ran, which has nothing to do with the Bible that I can see.
Jesus, whether you see him as a personality of God, God’s son in the flesh (as I do) or whether you see him as a human, he taught love, loving your neighbor as yourself,forgiveness, etc. I see none of that from these Muslim statements or from the Qu’ran.
If you are a peaceful people and religion, then act like it.
Comment by Debbie — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 11:04 am UTC
Tajwali Khan:
“Adultery, Incest, sodomy is quite is normal and is rarely discouraged.”
Nonsense – Adultery and incest is illegal and is always discouraged and happens extremely rarely. Sodomy is a personal choice and no-onne elses business. Rape and submerged homosexuality (nothing wrong with the latter), however, is quite common in many arabian countries due to suppressed sexual urges. This, unfortunately, ends up ruining the lives of many nannies from the third world – my particular experience is with Phillipinoes in Saudi.
“To them being human is following instinct. They have mistaken their animal needs as their long lost & forgotten human side.”
And to muslims, being human means threatening the lives of those who disagree with them?! Splendid!
“The East still has morals values and beliefs, and due to this it will over take the west in a decade or two.”
Really? Like arranging the marriage of others? Like killing their sons and daughters if they disobey their parents/families? Yeah, that´s really morally superior… NOT! Take over in a decade or two? Thanks for showing the true intent of the muslims of the world! We’ll certainly take our precautions to see that this NEVER happens!
sjawai:
Your response to this discussion is that of a spoiled 8 year old child or a true lunatic – make your own choice. It certainly makes clear what the west is up against!!!
Comment by Adam — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 11:55 am UTC
Raven:
Was September 11 before or after the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan?
The so-called cause of radical Islamic terrorism continues to change with the seasons. There is this society to remember what happened centuries earlier, but that’s only when it fits whoever is teaching today’s youth what to believe. They don’t remember Mohammed calling for a truce and then conquering lands filled only with Jewish farmers while slaughtering them along the way. They don’t remember that the Crusades were fought on the pretense to of protecting the Holy Lands from a conquering military.
Ask a jihadi in Kashmir if he or she cares about Palestine. What about those who beheaded three Christian schoolgirls in Indonesia? Whoever did it, do you really think they care about Iraq? The cause, while difficult to pin down, isn’t Palestine or Iraq. Maybe that is cause for you, Raven, to be upset but to many, many more who actually carry out heinous acts they don’t care about what you hold dear to your heart.
To most of those of us who support the cartoons, it’s not about Islam. It has absolutely nothing to do with any religion. We won’t sit here and stay quiet while other people want to rant and rave that not all things are covered in freedom of expression. That’s nonsense. Who are you to tell me what I can or cannot talk about? Yes, I am a Kafir and a proud Kafir. I do not believe Mohammed was a prophet, but I respect your right to believe he was. You should respect my right not to believe Mohammed was a prophet. That’s what Western society is. That’s what we love and cherish. It isn’t imposing beliefs upon other people or calling them names, it’s a general acceptance. In this case, you are trying to impose your will on a Western nation to silence our thoughts that are incompatible with your culture. Nuts!
I hate to pick on you, Raven, because I have read this full thread and I realize you are reasonable and intelligent. That said, were the sanctions imposed on Iraq the fault of the international community or because Iraq’s old dictator invaded Kuwait and slaughtered Kuwaitis, not to mention every other instance of attrocity? The oil-for-food program was set up to ensure the Iraqis continued to get food, but it was Saddam Hussein who found backroads to take that money and build palaces, buy cars and stockpile enough money to feed the entire continent of Africa for a year. It’s very common to blame those who your society teach you to blame, but you’re blaming the people who tried to help Iraqis by limiting their dictator who murdered innocent Iraqi life. The goal of the sanctions were to keep Saddam in check and hopefully encourage Iraqis to stand up and push him out of power. It was also the international community that failed the Iraqis in this step because the desired outcome never transpired.
Is it the responsibility of government to feed or is it the responsibility of every single human being to find or buy food?
Comment by Rob — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 11:58 am UTC
Swampdog:
“Does anyone see where this is leading? I’m sorry to say that the only solution that would end Arab Muslim violence would be for the Jewish people to pull out of the region. Anyone see that happening in their lifetime? Didn’t think so. Me either.”
I don’t agree here – peacefull co-existance would be far preferable for both parts!
I just want to point out a few things about the conflivt: firstly, there was no “country” as such before the proclamation of the state of Israel (by majority in the UN). The area was a protectorate of UK and religiously under Damascus, who treated everyone like s…! Secondly, the state of Israel was supposed to be a state for jews, muslims and chrisitans alike – all have been present in the region throughout known history. The war between the jews and the sorrounding arab countries have made both parts hard and irreconcilable, and have resulted in atrocities from both sides. To get both sides to stop the violence and talk to eachother is crucial to find a peacefull solution. My personal idea of (part of) a solution would be to make Jerusalem a World City, and the capital of UN. Much of the animosity between the two parts is about the “ownership” of this city, but none of them considers that Jerusalem is the holiest city in the christian faith, still the most numerous of the worlds religions…!
Comment by Adam — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 12:07 pm UTC
It’s any excuse to have a go at the West as far as I’m concerned. These hypocrites should be shown for what they are. Dressing up children children to wear clothes threatening another 9/11 shows the lengths these blinkered idiots will go to. Jack Straw & Mandelson should hang their heads in shame. Burning the Danish cross shows the respect they have for Christianity and we should show them the same. These people are incapable of rational thinking because they have been completely brainwashed.
Comment by Paul B — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 12:22 pm UTC
Paul B:
Yeah, I saw Jack Straw on BBC World yesterday – I am SOOOOO disappointed at the official reaction from England.
Comment by Adam — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 12:53 pm UTC
Muslim brothers and sisters,
there is not point fighting and debating here with the kufar!Astafirullahalazim muslim brothers and sisters!May ALLAH protect us!
Surah Al-Kafirun
1.Say: O you, those who reject faith
2.I do not worship what you worship
3.And you are not worshipers of what I worship
4.And I will never worship what you worship
5.And you are not worshipers of what I worship
6.To you, your religion, and to me, mine
Comment by Allahuakhbar — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 1:02 pm UTC
Apparently the followers of Islam that are involved in the protests concerning the Danish cartoons, think that their worship of their prophet Mohammed should be forced upon and practiced by non-muslims.
When I saw the cartoons, I did not think it was an attack on Islam. I looked at them as a window, into the view of the western perception about the majority of Muslims and their silent acceptance of terrorism and violence, when practiced by fellow muslims to further any political and/or religious agenda espoused by those specific practitioners of Islam. In other words, those cartoons seemed to sum up how the western(and far eastern)world views Islam and Muslims as violently seeking to force their ideology on everyone else.
Historically, in fairly recent times, the Nazis tried that, as did the Japanese, and many other narrowly focused groups. Although the methodology was different in those cases, I think the resulting outcome may be similar.
There may be a time in the near future, that the world tires of the tantrums and violent outbursts being displayed by the insistantly vocal minority that appears to represent Islam as a whole, and forcibly shuts it down for the sake the world’s own safety and security. The part of world that is being attacked, as a whole, has that ability – up till now, it has only not had the collective inspiration and/or motivation.
Thus far, the world has been tolerant – for what ever reason. That could easily change – if for no other reason than being fatigued, frightened, or frustrated.
Hopefully, this episode of intolerance and violence could serve as yet another wake up call to those moderates of Islam to attempt to do some internal influencing or housekeeping to insure their own safety, security and continued existance.
There has been enough bloodshed already – hasn’t there ?
Comment by Chazyk — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 1:15 pm UTC
The violence that erupted from the mere publishing of cartoons illustrates perfectly the backwards-azz nature of Islam and its adherents. Muslims, you *will* reform your religion and the violent thugs in your midst, or the West will reform it for you. Its as simple as that.
Comment by Crusader — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 1:36 pm UTC
I don’t understand what all this hysteria is all about. Christians are refered by Muslims as INFIDELS and thats ok and nobody complains!!!And now all this for a simple cartoon. I think this is getting to far!!! Where is the freedom of speach and expression???
Comment by M.Miodrag — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 2:05 pm UTC
kufar…what the f… you lot on pure evil and you will all b gone soon belive long live the free world..uk.. usa
Comment by world war 3 — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 2:08 pm UTC
I tell you this now and i dont care about ur response so save it ok…you lot r just looking for trouble and if you realy want it then cool as
Comment by world war 3 — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 2:10 pm UTC
Thanking this site for being the only one I could find that had the BALLS to reproduce the “offending” cartoon.
If these people are protesting about this cartoon, they need to “get a life” or get a job that will keep them off the streets.
They don’t seem too concerned if one of theirs blows up innocent men, women and children (even their own), but woe betide anyone who produces a cartoon that they don’t like.
My opinion: Back to the sand with all of you. You deserve to live with each other. Kill each other and we will deal with the one who is left.
Pat
Comment by Patrick E — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 2:50 pm UTC
so yet again the poor peacefull humanity loving muslims are upset a little bit by a cartoon it is a shame.apparantly all the placards about kill the infidel bomb the world butcher the infidel and england your time is coming were all great jokes just like the cartoon because the muslims are a peacefull race not like us christians getting jolly angry every time someone insults god or jesus but then we christians are just fanatical not like the peace loving (i was joking and my mum packed my rucksack)muslims who are not the bane of the planet and who do most certainally not deserve to be jailed for their right to free peacefull bombing!
Comment by matt — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 5:07 pm UTC
Moslems, the truth hurts, ah?
Read the history, mohammed was a liar, pediaphile, womanizer and thief. How can such a creature be a prophet from God???
He was found by salman al farsi, the brain behind islam and stole verses from every other religeon and added some of the most useless and non-sensical bull shit that makes your head spin.
You don’t believe me? Read the quran.
yours truly,
a former IRANIAN moslim
Comment by Darius — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 6:02 pm UTC
Dorood bar Iranians,
Ruturn to yourself. We have Zartosht, Kourosh (Cyrus), Ferdowsi, Khayam, Abu Ali Sina, etc…..
We don’t need the evil of islam….wake up and understand what crap the mullahs have been feeding us. Read the Tazinameh (quran) and listen to Mr. Fouladvand who is waking the world up about islam.
All moslims should wake up and not be afraid. You will not turn into stone if you reject this terrorist and anti human cult called islam.
Comment by Darius — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 6:11 pm UTC
IT’S A FREAKIN CARTOON. THE UNDERLYING THEME TO ALL OF THIS IS QUITE SIMPLE. THOSE OF YOU MUSLIMS WHO LIVE IN PEACE AND PROVIDE A LIVING FOR YOUR FAMILIES, RAISE YOUR BEAUTIFUL CHILDREN, AND LIVE A CIVILIZED LIFE BELIEIVNG WHAT YOU BELIEVE HAVE TO SOMEHOW ACCOUNT FOR THOSE WHO PRACTICE YOUR RELIGION WITH THE INJECTION OF FEAR AND TERROR TO THE VERY PEOPLE WHO WANT ONLY WHAT YOU YOU HAVE – AND YOU CANNOT JUSTIFY THOSE WHO IN YOUR RELIGION AS HAVING THE SAME BELIEFS OR FOUNDATIONS THAT YOU HAVE THOUGH YOU ARE UNDER THE SAME MUSLIM BELIEF- I AM A CHRISTIAN- WE HAVE OUR OWN EXTREMISTS (KKK) THE DIFFERENCE IS OUR WRITTEN WORD IS CLEAR ON DISCERNING OURSELVES FROM THOSE WHOARE HYPOCRITES AND SPREAD FOUL PREACHINGS OF CHRIST AND OUR FAITH. WE DO NOT WANT A VIOLENT GROUP OF ANY KIND THREATENING ANY OF US CHRISTIAN OR NOT-WE ARE TAUGHT TO LOVE GODS CHILDREN-MUSLIM OR ANY OTHER-IT IS IN OUR COMMANDMENTS-YOU HAVE PEOPLE IN YOUR RELIGION PORTRAY THIS THREAT BY VIOLATING THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME-WHAT WILL YOU SAY TO YOUR MUSLIM BROTHERS ABOUT THIS? THAT IS THE DIRECTION YOUR RELIGION WILL GO.
DANGER
Comment by RIC DANGER — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 6:12 pm UTC
It is only ink on paper. This cartoon is only one persons opinion. True faith and belief one has in religon would not be tainted by this. The only people this cartoon insults are the people who uses his name in vein, to kill and terrorize innocent people. You people have to wear masks and sneak attack. If you belief what you doing is right why hide. Grow up. You people will just use this as another excuse. That excuse came from freedom of speech. A GOD given right that we all should share. But your kind does not understand freedom. You will never understand, you are ignorant. All you know is hatred. Your kind use this as another excuse in his name to kill and terrorize the world and your own people. This cartoon is the message you are sending to the world. This cartoon could not be, more right. Go on, do the only thing your kind knows terrorize and hate the rest of us.
Comment by Concerned — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 6:32 pm UTC
I write this as an objective observer of religion. You are all a bunch of terrorists and murderous fanatics, regardless of your race, religion or creed. I, of course, find exception in the millions of poor, common people who are fooled into your cults. I do speak, however, to anyone who would have a strong opinion of this cartoon. You all have murdered millions in the name of the god you created from your own fears of mortality. Christian, Islam or otherwise; you all create terror in the hearts of others, rooted in your ignorance and your need to murder in the name of peace so that you can ensure that your message is the one that is right. All the muslims writing in this forum who advocate this violence in the name of a peaceful man named mohammed are kindred spirits to the christians who murdered your people in the name of a peaceful man named jesus. You all deserve each other. We don’t deserve you. If there were a god of peace, surely he would protect the children of this world, and rid us all of you.
Comment by Objective Observer — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 8:35 pm UTC
It is just a cartoon remember.
I wish all world religeons could just live in Peace. Muslims talk of the oppression of their faith from the western world and they are correct. The world media…no matter how diplomatic and PC they claim to be are just capitalist biggots who worship no god but Money.
I am a Roman Catholic and the same level of oppression is bestowed upon us from the sewer that is the world media but this oppression comes in a different form.
God said “Love one another”!!!!! So fundamentalist Islamic Militants etc really upset me with the actions that they take….but who do people like Tony Blair and co think they are…talking against the murder of innocents etc… and the evils of terrorism in our world??? Genocide of the unborn occurs every day in the great Democracies of Europe and the united states. Hipocritical individuals..all of them.
The cartoon is a mere pen on paper suggestion by some idiotic individual who just happens to be connected to Denmark. The Danish shouldnt be held responsible. That kind of fanatical generalisation and hate mongering by the muslims around the world these past days just mirrors the attitudes that we see in USA with hatred towards all muslims because of a few fanatical people within the vast global muslim community.
The cartoon is the same as people defacing and ridiculing Jesus Christ….and that happens every day…who cares??
Comment by Concerned Catholic — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 9:52 pm UTC
ITS ONLY A FREAKING CARTOON!!!! STOP BICKERING ABOUT IT AND STOP BURNING EMBASSIES YOU MAD MOSLIM FREAKSHOWS
Comment by WEB DEVELOPER — Saturday, February 4, 2006 @ 9:58 pm UTC
It is very enlightning to read the comments of so-called educated and civilized westeners. I can feel the poison seeping through….It is very saddening that having all the oppertunities and abilities you people are still ignorent of the fastest spreading religion
Comment by sarah — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 12:21 am UTC
This is for you sarah!!!!
You would not speak like this if you would live in one of their countries!!! With a Ninja suit and no rights. When you get married to a guy thats 30 years older than you because you got sold by your family or because it is your first couisin that needs a younger wife. Because the saying ” Next of kin softer skin” is not such an unusual thing
Comment by M.Miodrag — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 12:33 am UTC
This is getting to be haha funny. People are still talking of “Freedom of Expression”? I don’t believe it.
I thought a position in the EU commission or the position of the Prime Minister of Denmark requires some level of intellegence.
1. EU threatens Muslims of boycotting the Danish products… What in the world???? where is my freedom to buy what I want?
2. Denmark PM: “this can be resolved via debate and mutual respect.”
I’m sorry.. Mutual WHAT?
Are these people mere idiots?
Mutual respect… try to remember that when you bring up Freedom of Expression.
We understand “Freedom of Expression”, can you please not bring it up again and concentrate on “Mutual Respect” for a sec?
Yes, we are boycotting Danish product. This is a call to all Muslims. If this boycott continues through Aug, Loss to Denmark is estimated to be around 39 Billion Euro. I wouldn’t encourage any violence. Keep it peaceful boycotting (but of course we’ll be threatened and critized no matter what we do). I am sorry if this will hurt the Danish people, but making fun of our prophet is not passing by without us practicing our “freedom”.
I know for a lot of people it is difficult to understand the reaction behind all this. The reason is because in the west you have lost or corrupted the meanings of “Sacred”, “Holy”, and even “Freedom”. The Chuch now allows everything… if you want to get married to any sex, or even to a goat, you’d probably find a priest. In the name of Freedom parents are abandoned, affairs are done and marriages are broken, just to name few issues. This freedom is similar to the jungle freedom.
So, with the corruption of such words, it would be very difficult to understand muslim’s rage. The prophet Mohammed still lives with the Muslims today.
- dear Miodrag, you watch too much TV. Get to know muslims or read about real Islam.
Peace, Samir.
Comment by Samir — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 1:11 am UTC
Everyone is talking about Mohammed, the prophet of Islam. Who is he?
For a change, Lets see what unbiased Wester Writers and intellects have said about Mohammed (PBUH) (from: http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/quote1.html#note):
1. Thomas Carlyle in ‘Heroes and Hero Worship and the Heroic in History,’ 1840:
“The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only.”
“A silent great soul, one of that who cannot but be earnest. He was to kindle the world, the world’s Maker had ordered so.”
2. Gibbon in ‘The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire’ 1823:
“The good sense of Muhammad despised the pomp of royalty. The Apostle of God submitted to the menial offices of the family; he kindled the fire; swept the floor; milked the ewes; and mended with his own hands his shoes and garments. Disdaining the penance and merit of a hermit, he observed without effort of vanity the abstemious diet of an Arab.”
3.Edward Gibbon and Simon Oakley in ‘History of the Saracen Empire,’ London, 1870
“The greatest success of Mohammad’s life was effected by sheer moral force.”
“It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that deserves our wonder, the same pure and perfect impression which he engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved after the revolutions of twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes of the Koran….The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation of reducing the object of their faith and devotion to a level with the senses and imagination of man. ‘I believe in One God and Mahomet the Apostle of God’ is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honors of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion.â€
4.Reverend Bosworth Smith in ‘Muhammad and Muhammadanism,’ London, 1874:
“Head of the State as well as the Church, he was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without the Pope’s pretensions, and Caesar without the legions of Caesar, without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a police force, without a fixed revenue. If ever a man ruled by a right divine, it was Muhammad, for he had all the powers without their supports. He cared not for the dressings of power. The simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his public life.”
“In Mohammadanism every thing is different here. Instead of the shadowy and the mysterious, we have history….We know of the external history of Muhammad….while for his internal history after his mission had been proclaimed, we have a book absolutely unique in its origin, in its preservation….on the Substantial authority of which no one has ever been able to cast a serious doubt.”
5. Edward Montet, ‘La Propagande Chretienne et ses Adversaries Musulmans,’ Paris 1890. (Also in T.W. Arnold in ‘The Preaching of Islam,’ London 1913.)
“Islam is a religion that is essentially rationalistic in the widest sense of this term considered etymologically and historically….the teachings of the Prophet, the Qur’an has invariably kept its place as the fundamental starting point, and the dogma of unity of God has always been proclaimed therein with a grandeur a majesty, an invariable purity and with a note of sure conviction, which it is hard to find surpassed outside the pale of Islam….A creed so precise, so stripped of all theological complexities and consequently so accessible to the ordinary understanding might be expected to possess and does indeed possess a marvelous power of winning its way into the consciences of men.”
6. Alphonse de LaMartaine in ‘Historie de la Turquie,’ Paris, 1854.
“Never has a man set for himself, voluntarily or involuntarily, a more sublime aim, since this aim was superhuman; to subvert superstitions which had been imposed between man and his Creator, to render God unto man and man unto God; to restore the rational and sacred idea of divinity amidst the chaos of the material and disfigured gods of idolatry, then existing. Never has a man undertaken a work so far beyond human power with so feeble means, for he (Muhammad) had in the conception as well as in the execution of such a great design, no other instrument than himself and no other aid except a handful of men living in a corner of the desert. Finally, never has a man accomplished such a huge and lasting revolution in the world, because in less than two centuries after its appearance, Islam, in faith and in arms, reigned over the whole of Arabia, and conquered, in God’s name, Persia Khorasan, Transoxania, Western India, Syria, Egypt, Abyssinia, all the known continent of Northern Africa, numerous islands of the Mediterranean Sea, Spain, and part of Gaul.
“If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws, and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples, dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and the souls.
“Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of Ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs…. The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?”
8. Mahatma Gandhi, statement published in ‘Young India,’1924.
I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind…. I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life.
9. Michael Hart in ‘The 100, A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons In History,’ New York, 1978.
My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the secular and religious level. …It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. …It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.
10. Washington Irving ‘Mahomet and His Successors’
He was sober and abstemious in his diet and a rigorous observer of fasts. He indulged in no magnificence of apparel, the ostentation of a petty mind; neither was his simplicity in dress affected but a result of real disregard for distinction from so trivial a source.
In his private dealings he was just. He treated friends and strangers, the rich and poor, the powerful and weak, with equity, and was beloved by the common people for the affability with which he received them, and listened to their complaints.
His military triumphs awakened no pride nor vain glory, as they would have done had they been effected for selfish purposes. In the time of his greatest power he maintained the same simplicity of manners and appearance as in the days of his adversity. So far from affecting a regal state, he was displeased if, on entering a room, any unusual testimonials of respect were shown to him. If he aimed at a universal dominion, it was the dominion of faith; as to the temporal rule which grew up in his hands, as he used it without ostentation, so he took no step to perpetuate it in his family.
11. Michael Hart in ‘The 100, A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons In History,’ New York, 1978.
My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world’s most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the secular and religious level. …It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. …It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.
12. De Lacy O’Leary in ‘Islam at the Crossroads,’ London, 1923:
“History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”
Comment by Samir — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 1:31 am UTC
to la ellah ela allah, you threaten others who do not agree with you by saying that allah will come crush them. if you’re a truly enlightened muslim, you would realize that your religion is peaceful and that your God would not allow you to insinuate hate or be part of your own wrath. maybe you should stop and look into the mirror and realize why some people are so negative about Islam: it is because of ignorant, hypocritical and cowardly people like yourself. go evaluate yourself, and stop giving a bad name to your religion and those who truly understand it.
Comment by rita — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 1:37 am UTC
Wow, I had no idea this little flamewar was still ongoing. Well, better than the more traditional Muslim way of settling disputes…
Sarah, it is because I have taken the opportunities to learn about the “world’s fastest growing religion” that I have as little respect for it as I do. (Well, not really the religion itself, but rather its mass of followers. Somehow I think even their 12th-century ancestors would have been shocked at just how low their descendants have sunk.)
And Samir, I know this whole argument-based-on-facts thing is tough and all, but try to keep up: the EU warned Saudi Arabia that a government-backed boycott would invite retaliation. That’s part of the deal when you join the WTO. It’s silly and all given Mohammed’s history, but the EU still expects Muslims to abide by the treaties they make with us infidels. Otherwise, the EU will retaliate in kind — and guess who has the more robust economy? (Hint: ranting fatwas are not an economically viable product.)
Individually, though, you may feel free to buy or not buy whatever products you want. While you are doing this, keep in mind that the Danish GDP was $254 billion in 2005. In other words, if we accept your figure of $39 billion, the entire Muslim ummah, working together for half a year, would dent the Danish economy by less than 10%, assuming the Danes couldn’t find other markets for their goods. Behold, the economic damage 1.2 billion Muslims can inflict on a nation of 5.5 million! Yes, we must definitely treat them with reverence.
No wonder the Muslims are issuing death threats and burning embassies. It’s pretty much the only skill they have.
Comment by E. Nough — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 1:56 am UTC
Mr Mio Drag…For your information, I sarah,am the citizen of peshawar,Pakistan. I reside on Afghan border. My area is depicted by the west as a hell for females…let me correct u, I am a practicing dentist with 3 kids.Yes my marriage was arranged but not forced. I am a modern muslim woman and I have travelled through europe and USA. I have seen women in west as well and I am thankful I was never born there.
Comment by sarah — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 2:56 am UTC
dear samir
i have been in the army for 17 years
Bosnia in the serbian army, Africa, Irak, Afganistan…etc…
I think i have been observing islam very close for many years. I dont want to trow the educated people of that fate in the same pot. But the majority is very uneducated and follows leaders always like sheep and always hides behind there religion when it comes to killing innocent people in the name of allah.
peace. MM
Comment by M.Miodrag — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 3:30 am UTC
uk.usa.uk.usa.uk.usa u c them names their,well u better heed them u muslemons,why do y hurt your women,why do u kill any1 why,cause it says so in your book,who talk about being brainwashed,you all need help or some strong tamazepan pills,try em u might c the light ,,,i think not ,
Comment by world war 3 — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 3:35 am UTC
uk.usa.uk.usa.uk.usa u c them names their,well u better heed them u muslemons,why do y hurt your women,why do u kill any1 why,cause it says so in your book, talk about being brainwashed,you all need help or some strong tamazepan pills,try em u might c the light ,,,i think not ,
Comment by world war 3 — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 3:36 am UTC
WE R NOW ON DEF CON 2
Comment by world war 3 — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 3:37 am UTC
Dear M.Miodrag,
Very well said, i agree with your point. You described thm very accurately. I agree that not all muslims but a whole lot of them share blind obedience to the leaders who more often then not, are ignorant and violent. So sad!
Comment by Cesar of Manila — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 3:45 am UTC
as a defender my comments to all european union they will soon face the horror of CURSE by
Comment by defender of ISLAM — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 4:02 am UTC
Comment by defender of ISLAM — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 4:05 am UTC
Will both sides here please get a grip!!!
To Muslims, I have seen the cartoons and can well understand why several of them they are offensive to you, especially given the religious ban on depictions of the Prophet. But threatening the West with violence, burning flags and demanding everyone apologise because your faith says something is true when ours doesn’t will only harden the attitudes of the West towards you and confirm the belief that you are all terrorists. And please look at context. The original article in Denmark was about self-censorship and how Islam is perceived in the West. It was not about, ‘Gee, how best can we offend Muslims’. The editor has apologised.
To the defenders of Free Speech, please accept that Muslims are genuinely offended by this and probably should be. Also accept that most Muslims are not the violent thugs you see on the TV. Peaceful protest is not news. In the Uk there have been several demonstrations, any comdemning the violence. Muslims have been calling on the demonstrators with placards about beheadings and 7/7 to be arrested. And Free Speech may not have limits, but common decency and huanity do. Freely insulting people just because you can is childish.
For God’s sake will both sides just grow up a bit and explain the position, not shout, not threaten, not insult, not abuse, just talk. Because the alternative involves an awful lot of people finding out whether their beliefs were correct or not the hard way when they meet their creator.
Comment by Paul Watson — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 4:08 am UTC
well in the manner of religious respect no one has the right to insult anyone’s religious PROPHET in any case if all of u say or think that muslims are terrorist and they aer cuz wen west do ssuch thing thye say they are protecting world from harm… huh.. well dear we can see wats us doing in IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN,PALESTINE its not terrorism then wat…. wat i might say if west stop killing and bugging MUSLIMS… MUSLIMS will stop killing and bugging west…. it says do good get good do bad get bad….
Comment by defender of ISLAM — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 4:23 am UTC
ppl talk about the muslim faith being the fastest spreading religion in the world, it is now spreading throughout the western capitalist world, does that make the muslims here less muslim, as they live by our standards and work most of their lives simply to acrue wealth for themselves and their families. I agree there are evil greedy ppl in the western world, but there are just as many in the muslim world, they seek their power in other ways, usulally involving torture and suffering of millions of other muslims, my world is not perfect but the muslim world is also along way from perfection, we are all only human after all
Comment by Andrew — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 4:34 am UTC
Defender of ISLAM,
Afghanistan was invaded beacause it helped protect people who flew 747′s into buildings. I’m pretty sure that’s regarded asa serious sin in Islam.
Iraq, well, Iraq is a different proposition, but most deaths there are now being caused by Muslim killing Muslim, rather than by the Western forces. And the majority in Iraq seem to be glad the West invaded and deposed a tyrant who massacred his own people.
As to insulting your prophet. Well, yes, we can insult him. And you can insult ours. What we have problems with is when people burn buildings, behead people or blow them up because of some cartoons. That seems to be a little bit out of proportion.
Comment by Paul Watson — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 4:36 am UTC
Samir:
“1. EU threatens Muslims of boycotting the Danish products… What in the world???? where is my freedom to buy what I want?”
You have the freedom to buy or boycot whatever you want. Your government do not! IT is part of the WTO and cannot initiate boycots on other countries without breaking the agreement and facing economical punishment. This has been said over and over – please read the text before you argue.
“2. Denmark PM: “this can be resolved via debate and mutual respect.â€
I’m sorry.. Mutual WHAT?
Are these people mere idiots?
Mutual respect… try to remember that when you bring up Freedom of Expression.
We understand “Freedom of Expressionâ€, can you please not bring it up again and concentrate on “Mutual Respect†for a sec?”
Respect. Know that word? It means not treating other people badly (bombings, discrimination, ban on other religions, etc.) It also means accepting the laws of other countries within their own borders. It also means trying to look at the world through their eyes before reacting.
However, it’s important to note that mutual respect is NOT a right, freedom of speech IS! The actins of many muslims for the last 50 years have removed much of the respect that the west would naturally have for another culture. Continued abuse, both verbal and physical, have worn away our patience and the nature of caricature (caricatures are satirical and critical in their very nature!) in question was to poiont out that ANY critique of muslims in general and arabs in particular, no matter how small or how truthful, is likely to be met with violent protests, threats or even acts of violence and a complete lack of understanding by the muslim community of the world as a whole. The vast majority of peaceful muslims would likely not do anything but they would certainly defend the actions of their more fanatical fellow muslims, as can be seen in this very thread! The fact that the silent majority of muslims basically do not see anything wrong in the reactions of more fanatical muslims around the world is really the most disturbing fact that this debate has unveiled!
Comment by Adam — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 4:44 am UTC
well watson insulting your Prophet in our religion is a sin too cuz ur jesus and christ was also send by ALLAH and no one has right to say sumthing bad about thier religion as u comparing that west are not terrorist well watson u are wrong wen muslim do sumthing west says muslims are terrorrist and wen u west ppl do its nothing well watson wat i say if west stop bugging muslims then muslims wont do such a thing stop killing ppl in palestine, stop sketching thing like danish did then muslims wont do it my brother watson every thing got its price….
Comment by defender.of.islam — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 4:47 am UTC
it angers me to hear ppl from the muslim world perpetually ranting about how evil the western world is, it is no more or no less evil that ppl in the muslim world. I am an Agnostic and there for descriminated against by christians and muslims alike, know as a godless person, I need no god, i know the difference between good and evil, and i can see that the muslim religion as well as many others is being abused and used as a weapon against ppl who do not believe. because of the types of countries a lot of muslims come from they believe you can bully people into respecting their faith, respect has to be earned not demanded. and muslims should realise that the world will NEVER be all muslim irrespective of what is “written”, I may be tortured or even killed, but I will NEVER be a muslim wether I am dead or alive!
Comment by Andrew — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 4:54 am UTC
defender of ISLAM:
The west helped throw a muslim invader out of another muslim country – I think most Kuwaitees were quite thankful for our intervention (many Saudees too, since they were probably next in line!).
The west invaded Afghanistan because it was a breeding ground for terrorists who threatened the citizens of the western world without the local government doing anything to stop them. In addition, the regime was totallitarian and oppresive – I’d wager the vast majority of Afghans are thankful that they are rid of the Taliban!
The second invasion of Iraq was ill conceived although still quite defendable – a ruthlss tyrant misused the wealth of his country to enrich himself and oppress his people, all the while making a fool of the UN for a whole 12 years. The whole thing could have been handled better, but the end result still remains – the people of Iraq have had their first free elctions and are basically free to choose their own future. As soon as their police and military are fit to cope with the fanatical minority and terrorists from neighbouring countries, the western military presence will be only too happy to leave for good!
The west is not present in Palestine – where do this fit in?! We are contemplating a stop to the economic support of the country, but that’s certainly our right (our money, our decision!) Hamas has stood for nothing but terror and the striving for a totallitarin regime as far the west is concerned – they may have had a humanitarian role locally, but this does not nullify the fact that they breed terrorists and insist on the destruction of the state of Israel. This is unacceptable to the west. As long as terror attacks against the west are not organized in Palestine, we will not take any physical action against the country, but we will certainly exercise our right to stop aid or even ennact an embargo if they will not abide by the laws between nations!
Comment by Adam — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 4:59 am UTC
well ppl here in blog i must say this our faith(islam) is not complete even if wen dnt have faith in the PROPHETS as they are in muslim,jews and christians… well there is nothing like to be insulted like danish did and we will also protest if anyone frm anywhere insult OUR religious PROPHETS (islam,jews, and christians)
Comment by defender.of.islam — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 5:00 am UTC
defender of ISLAM,
Let’s try this again. Is drawing a cartoon as bad as threatening to kill someone?
If no, then why are some Muslims making such a threat on the basis of a cartoon?
If yes, then Israel has a right to attack any Muslim country on the basis of some of the cartoons printed in your press about them.
Comment by Paul Watson — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 5:04 am UTC
Defender of islam and Samir….and world war 3….SHUT YOUR STUPID ARSES UP !!!!
You cunts should all be locked up in a room with Mohamad and his “Hat-bomb”….and i’d set the fucker alight. Thats what would sort out this little cafuffle
Comment by Antony & his Big Johnson(mail mefuckemall@whogivesashitaboutthecartoon.cunt) — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 5:11 am UTC
I cannot believe that a person can say that they are true to their religion when their hearts are full of hatred and their minds filled with thoughts of murder!
These protests are an excuse, they are protesting in the Bloody Lebanon, how rediculus that millions of peoples lives be so affected by a stupid cartoon
I am just thankfull that the people in the western world have had more important things on their minds over the last few generations, afterall with modern technology (mostly invented in the west),medicines and medical techniques, transoprtation and modern farming techniques ect i think that the west has been responsible for the improvement of BILLIONS of lives, irrespective of race, crede or colour.
Comment by Andrew — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 5:12 am UTC
Good on you andrew….Making objective points on this site when all thew others are just bickering like spoiled little red assed bitches
Comment by Antony & his Big Johnson(mail mefuckemall@whogivesashitaboutthecartoon.cunt) — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 5:15 am UTC
you cant blame muslims for the way they behave, they are held to randsom by their religion, just as christians were in the west hundreds of years ago!
Comment by Andrew — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 5:17 am UTC
I am deeply saddened by the events that have occured from the cartoon drawings published in Denmark. And it saddens me even more that Muslims and Arabs are reacting in such an uncontrollable manner. Burning down consulates and violating diplomatic immunity, is HORRIFIC. The convoys sent by different countries deserve our respect and protection and not being endangered by such cowardly acts as putting a whole building on fire, because someone in some remote country decided to challenge the fact that we don’t have any deptictions of our Prophet. Our Prophet (PBUH) would surely be discontented by the actions of Muslims today. Throughout the Prophets life he was ridiculed and hurt but he NEVER went around slaughtering people haphazardly just because he doesn’t agree with them. How can other people and religions view us as ‘peaceful’ when all we show them is corruption and extreme violence? Even if this is by a limited few. It is the responsibility of the other overwhelming majority of Muslims to lead by example and show other nations that WE are indeed peaceful and tolerant. And it is true that our religion is one of peace and love, but it is unfortunate that this is not practiced any where in the Arab or Muslim world. Please I beg all sides to just calm down! For the western world, yes the pictures that were drawn did offend us, but an apology for hurting our feelings would suffice. For the Mulsims and Arabs please stop this insanity. Remember what God Almighty says, that to each his own religion (lakum dinakoum walliya deen). ENOUGH!!
Comment by stop the insanity — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 5:17 am UTC
Andrew and stop the insanity,
Maybe the rest of us should let you two have the discussion. It would probably shed a lot more light than heat, rather than the other way round.
Comment by Paul Watson — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 5:26 am UTC
What’s good for goose is good for gander.
Comment by Rick Agrippa — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 6:36 am UTC
The Islamic Media print cartoon’s daily shows the Evil American Empire, slave to it’s Jewish master killings Muslims in the streets. The united States, Western Europe continue to do business with that region, due largely to economic goals and respect for national social outcry within these nations. Certainly, I won’t argue that the last 6 years (Bush Presidency) has changed American foriegn policy goals in the Mid-East, but Muslims in the region should ask themselves whose fault that was? Sep. 11th changed Bush dramicaly and gave rise to an Imperial Presidency, due to Muslim extremists spreading a culture of hate throughout the region. If you talk to most people the world over, one thing remains the same…no body like a person that won’t help themsleves, always asks for handouts and blames others for thier problems. Today, in the Middle East, that sums up every single Government in the Region. I challange Muslims to stop worrying about Danish cartoons and start looking at the propoganda they are being exposed to before a line is crossed that the cultures of both East and West will be worse for. (WWIII)
Comment by Rick Agrippa — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 6:48 am UTC
Bomb ‘em. Served ‘em right. See you guys in HELL!!!!
Comment by Remmy — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 8:24 am UTC
Say ye: “We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we submit to Allah (in Islám).”
Allah did aforetime take a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We appointed twelve chieftains among them. And Allah said: “I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, give Zakat (regular charity), believe in my messengers, honor and assist them, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to Gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path or rectitude.” But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard: they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them – barring a few – ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so We stirred up enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the Day of Judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book,- Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His will, unto the light,- guideth them to a Path that is straight. They disbelieved indeed those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and every one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things.” (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men He hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)” O People of the Book! Now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Messenger, after the break in (the series of) our messengers, lest ye should say: “There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil)”: But now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil). And Allah hath power over all things.
Comment by Fatih — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 9:21 am UTC
Wouldn’t it be great if those muslims who have been so incensed, where to channel as much energy into bettering their own countries’ human rights records and promoting equal rights for woman in Islamic countries? Or is that too much to ask?
A bewildered Dane…
Comment by Stig Jensen — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 10:25 am UTC
As a westerner (atheist) living in a Muslim country I can affirm the following traits of Muslim culture:
Two-faced, cheats, unethical, liars, corrupt beyond imagination (morally, politically, etc), uneducated, unemployed, misogynists, filthy beyond belief, tribalisitic, . . .
I could go on but you get the point.
They like living in their filth just fine, stealing from each other incessantly, and blaming “others” (read Infidels)for all their problems.
One thing they understand quite well is force. And unfortunately that is going to be the only way to resolve the conflict that is coming.
The outcome is obvious (look at what happened to Christianity 500 years ago). A reformation of Islam will occur and be required to pull it out of its sixth century ways before Islam will be able to live peacefully with any non-Islamic culture.
Comment by jose-cuervo — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 10:56 am UTC
I’m a Muslim,
who believe that there is only one god and mohammed is his prophet. i dont think that the muslim reaction is correct.
In islam we believe in prophet jesus and moses, we would not insult any of these prophets.
our religion doesnt say kill civilians. the prophet peace be upon him said ordered his army four things. not to kill an old man nor a women or a child and not to CUT A TREE..
I really wish that this lack of communication between the muslims and the other part of the world would end. and i hope that we would understand ur cutulre as much as we would like u to understand ours.
Not all muslims are arabs and some people understand our religion the way they want to understand it. and use it to attack civilians or whatever.
Islam first asked the rulers of all neighbouring empires to enter islam, just to guide them to the right way. and when islam was moving into other neighbooring countries people could choose but the people who didnt accept islam had to pay tax for the army so that they protect them. this was 1500 years ago.. u could consider it injustice now but lets not forget the time this was going on..
in our religion it says that “u who dont believe, u have ur own faith as we have our own faith. u have ur own god and we have our own god” Everyone has the right to practice whatever religion he wants.
Slavery was abolished in islam.
the prophet once said that all muslims are equal like the teeth of a comb..
EVERYONE is equal in islam.
the teaching of islam is not the islam u hear about everyday. i hope that each one of u before judging islam would read a book read the quran and truely undersatnd its meanings before judging.
I do not ask any of u to convert or to believe in what i say. I believe u have the right to bleive in wahtever u want.
I am a student. i know nothing about islam compared to what scholars know. I am a muslim and not a good one. i dont pray five times a day.. I just hope that u can understand better.
and one last thing, not all muslims are arabs..
Comment by Mohammed — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 11:02 am UTC
Mohammed & stop the insanity:
That’s all very good and fine and if all muslims (and westerners for that matter – we just saw a demonstration be neo-nazi idiots in Denmark the other day) would just think like that the world would be a much better place!
However, as we have seen the last few days (today in particular!) there is a long way towards that end. In the west I like to think we do a fairly good job of keeping down tendencies towards for example nazism. There is, however, a huge need for moderate muslims to show their colours and tell the fanatics of their religion that their behavior cannot be tolerated. This has been the main agenda and message these last two days during interviews with muslim politicians and ordinary people on the street here in Denmark. All agree that this country has room for all kind of people and the only thing necessary is mutual respect and an adherence to the basic human rights and the laws of the country. We have a minority of perhaps 500 muslims around the country that fall outside the term ‘moderate’ and would rather see a full scale conflict grow from this incident – don’t give them the satisfaction of seeing their wish come true!!!
Comment by Adam — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 5:11 pm UTC
I find it amusing that the Muslims of the world are so outraged by these cartoons about their religion. They never seem to condemn Muslim terrorists and at the very least seem to support them with their silence. So Muslims, their governments, their leaders, and their media can support killing innocents and the destruction of Israel and say nothing!!!!! But we are supposed to care that Muslims are upset about the “harm” caused by cartoons!
Get Real. Until I Hear “Moderate” Muslims marching and condemning the large number, possibly, majority of Muslims who are hateful, anti-western, and immoral, they should shutup!
Comment by Roger Guess — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 8:05 pm UTC
let me make it clear i have nothing against jews but they took land from the palestines what do you expect the palestinines to do sit back and relax? i bet if i came to your house and took a section of it u wud be pissed! but be clear i do not condone the killing of innnocent civilians undet any conditions
besides i find it diffucult that you will “hear” any moderate muslims marching against terrorism because if and whe they do as they did after september 11 and july 7 it wasnt highlighted. besides this there have been numerous petitions. if the media doasnt highlight it what do you want the muslims to do?
Comment by haaris — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 8:20 pm UTC
dear haaris:
As an Italian I believe that since Rome had conquered and controlled the area 2000 years ago that Italians have as much a right to Palestine as anyone else.
Where do I go to get my fair share?
Comment by quo vadis — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 9:37 pm UTC
>Lets be civilized and respct each others believes and >religion.
Respect has to be EARNED! Lunatic muslims are rapidly losing ALL respect for your religion!
>Crusader, if you stop calling my Prophet “a murderer, a >pedophile, and a thief†(which he was NOT and teaching >the opposite, peace), if you stop… maybe we’ll have a >two way street between us called Respect Ave.
Two way? When will muslims start respecting other religions?!
And as for Mohammed, did he not marry a ***6 year old*** and have SEX with her at age 9 when he was 53?! We call that a pedophile!
Comment by Magister — Sunday, February 5, 2006 @ 9:56 pm UTC
Everything in this world leads to opportunities. I am an optimist. Though this cartoon incident is detestable but it indeed has stirred people (muslims and non muslims) to read and know more about Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). Its like an advertisement which reads, “Dont Read this Ad”. People will definitely read it.
Let this be an opportunity for muslims to convey the true message of Islam (Peace) to the non-muslims as says Surah Asr, “By the token of time. Man is indeed in depravity. Save those who exhort others to truth. Save those who exhort others to steadfastness and patience”.
Now it is the duty of muslims to convey the truth about Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) who not only the muslims admire but is praised no end by non-muslim scholars of the highest eminence.
Comment by Usman — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 12:10 am UTC
The Muslims just can’t get any respect.
Small wonder.
Muslims respect other people’s beliefs ?
Let’s see.
The western democracies believe in freedom of expression, press, and speech in their own country.
The Muslim response is to attempt to force Muslim beliefs on another people and culture.
Respect ?
The western democracies demonstrated restraint as the extremist Muslims attacked and destroyed embassies while moderate Muslims do nothing.
Respect ?
The western democracies tolerated the extremist Muslims as they threatened the Europeans in European cities with another Holocaust like 9/11. Moderate Muslims do nothing.
Respect ?
Well, here’s one more aspect of Muslim respect. Several official Muslim governments’ stated official goal is the entire destruction of another religion and country – the Jews and Israel. Moderate Muslims demonstrating in the street over that ? Not that I’ve read about. Respect ? Peaceful ?
Ok, Lets look at the control issue that the Muslims were so upset about. Governments in both societies are representative of the people in those cultures.
The Danish government could not control free press. True. They did nothing. Why ? The people and government were supportive of the idea.
What were the Muslim governments successful at controlling ? The Muslim version of peaceful demonstrations ? No. They did nothing. Why ? The people and government were supportive of idea.
OK, now just for a minute, let’s entertain the timing of this issue.
Why did it take so long for the problem to come to fruition ? The cartoons were originally published months ago. Why now and not then ? Was there some reason for the delay in bringing this to the forefront ? Was there a need for enough time to coordinate something ?
Is it really any wonder that the western cartoonists portrayed Muslims as a “little” less than stable and benign ?
And to think, one of those countries is seeking to develop a Nuclear enrichment program – even as I write this.
I wonder, if that Muslim country will be a model to the rest of the world showcasing tolerance, stability, and respect for other peoples religion ?
Comment by Chazyk — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 12:38 am UTC
yo
Comment by world war 3 — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 7:43 am UTC
i think its time to act,or we will regreat it big time,time for the meslemons to go i think
Comment by world war 3 — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 7:45 am UTC
Im not sure that they will draw a jesus or a pope cartoon,and why they didnt publish those cartoon about 1.5 year ago!!!
tuzla,bosnia
Comment by tuzla — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 7:53 am UTC
Tuzla:
The western world is LITTERED with cartoons depicting Jesus and the Pope. Nobody threatened violence when those were published because those of us who live in the West understand that free speech includes the right to be critical of religions and religious icons.
Comment by Crusader — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 9:43 am UTC
Every body is saying that Jesus is as well dipicted in cartoons…can anyone prove that a muslim has ever created a cartoon of Prophets Jesus, Moses or Jacob????Never… They are Prophets as Mohammed ia PBUH….The issue of cartoon has proven to be the last straw for muslims. Did the Afghan ppl invite you ppl to come and liberate them???Or did the Iraqis invite you???why werent Iraqi ppl blowing them selves in the Saddam regime????Are you westeners so naive????cant you just face the reality and digest the truth that your governments are unjust to muslims?????
Comment by sarahkhattak — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 11:12 am UTC
No satire about Jesus? Think again…
http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/movie.html?v_id=211141
As you will see, we decided that the right to express yourself comes before the sensitivities of various religious devotees!
By the way, congratulations! You now have the first few deaths on account of a few CARTOONS! FRIGGIN CARTOONS!!! Well, I hope it was worth it!
Comment by Adam — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 11:14 am UTC
sarahkhattak:
“Did the Afghan ppl invite you ppl to come and liberate them???Or did the Iraqis invite you???”
No, the afghan government was training people to kill westerners and the punishment for speaking up against this was death. Of course we weren’t invited… neither was the allies when Hitler’s Germany was invaded in the 1940′s!
The Iraqees didn’t invite us either basically for the same reason – a tyrannical leader thereatening death to any who opposed him. Look at the uprising of the shia muslims in southern Iraq shortly after the first Gulf war (to which the westr WAS actually invited by Kuwait and Saudi Arabia!). The troops ther enow are actually there at the invitation of the ruling, ELLECTED governmet. If it weren’t for lunatics blowing themselves and others up right and left, we would have been long gone by now, believe me!
Comment by Adam — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 11:22 am UTC
sarahkhattak:
Unjust to muslims? Hell no–we’ve been extraordinarily patient with the backward-ass Muslims that believe a cartoon is worthy of causing destruction of property and human lives. Islam never misses a chance to prove that it is fundamentally at odd with the rights we cherish in a modern and democratic society.
Comment by Crusader — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 11:31 am UTC
one thing to say and 1 thing only MUSLEMONS
Comment by world war 3 — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 12:23 pm UTC
Sarahkhattak,
No, Muslims would not be likely to create cartoons about THEIR prophets Jesus,Moses or Jacob – Remember, those people are considered prophets within Islam and it is forbidden in Islam to make light of Your own prophets.
However, that does not seem to hinder Muslims from disrespecting other religions, cultures or the things those groups believe in or regard as sacred. Cases in point.
1. Muslims regularly portray Jews in very offensive and uncomplimentary terms.
2. Muslims regularly burn flags of other nations – those flags are symbols that are highly respected and held in special regard by the people that they represent. Indeed, many people in the world worship the flag of their nation.
3. Muslims not only consider people of other beliefs as evil, inferior and infidels, they actually are proud in openly attacking them in public and promoting violence against them.
4. Muslims openly insist that every other human being participate in thier religios beliefs by demanding that the other people give up thier beliefs in free speech, expression and press.
Just so you can see that the west does try to practice what it tries to preach, here’s an example of a cartoon poking fun at one of the west’s main religious figures. He’s also considered to be one of your prophets, so try not to be too offended.
http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=96
As far as being invited to Afghanistan, Osama Bin Laden invited the US, via special courier, to a party with Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.
Comment by Chazyk — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 12:37 pm UTC
it’s a sad day when the Danish are the only ones standing up for FREEDOM of speech. Look what these so called men of god are doing. they dance around our fallen soldiers. They Dance when the
twin towers fell and help hide the Butchers who attacked us, take hostages and cut their heads off.their actions speak for who they are.
Comment by Sam Smith — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 1:43 pm UTC
whats goin down chaps sad day when we all wanna get tooled up over cartoons.those riots that are kicking off if the shoe was on other foot would non islams be allowed to react in same fashion i think not. to many human rights bullshit laws goin on now its time ta ditch this shit we all flesh and fucking blood and shit and piss from same holes and thats from a scotsman.
ps my god is me dad
Comment by darren anderson — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 5:07 pm UTC
Incredible! Am not sure how one could tolerate reading the endless thread here. darren anderson is right – its all bs! Just for some cartoons – the cartoons are nothing. Stop the bs! If the purpose of the cartoons was to foment debate, it looks as if the Islamic community missed the mark. A shame. Get a life. PS darren anderson’s dad is not me God.
Comment by Plague the inventor — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 6:30 pm UTC
I’m sorry because of such insultive cartoon. In my opinion, the Creature of that cartoon is an infidel and his/her aim is canquering between cristians,jewishes, and muslims. Anybody who blieves in God,never does insult God’s Prophets.Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad are great prophets of God.
Comment by Dr. Ahmad Bagherithani — Monday, February 6, 2006 @ 9:09 pm UTC
wow .. u making good job .. such Danish really make good terrorists .
yes .. these ppl knows how to make very good terroirsts .. keeping going on this . and i promise 9/11 of USA will be repeated .
u have to think and feel how Arab and Muslims feel . so long time and they r suffering from occupation and accusing to be bad and terrorists ..
and now u abuse the most most most most most value thing in their life .. believe me u make peacefull people terrorists .
( hint to to newspapers .. if someone said to ur mother is a whore and this is not ur father .. and tell all ppl that thing and then announce that in news paper … thats may be easier for Muslim than make such pic. of prophet Mohamed .. can u imagine how u turn on the terrorism in people already feel dispair and suffering )
Comment by Ayman M. — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 3:45 am UTC
Ayman M:
I wouldn’t recommend it – the patience of the western world is rapidly nearing it’s end. It woulnd’t surprise me if a new 9/11 would provoke a violent reaction from the western governments…! This would be universally bad for the muslim coutries!
Your comment to the newspapers is, as has been pointed out several times already, completely invalid. The caricature was not, i repeat NOT, meant to insult the prophet, but rather to show muslims all over the world how their actions make the west view their culture, religion and ultimately the message of Mohammed. In other words, the caricatures are your own fault and have only been made because you have created that image! Act normally (the opposite of what you’re doing right now!) and things like this will go away by themselves… You don’t see many caricatures of hindu gods or confusius, do you?!
Comment by Adam B — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 4:56 am UTC
That did rather make me chuckle:
‘…provoke a violent reaction from the Western governments’
Forgive me for being dense but what were the last two Gulf wars and the invasion of Afghanistan if not ‘violent reactions’?
I feel while the tenants of free speech are inviolate, that doesn’t necessarily mean that what can be said must be said. Some element of responsibility goes along with those rights. The cartoons aren’t particularly good satire for a start which suggests that the papers either have a rather low quality control threshold or were deliberatly going out of their way to provoke a reaction. They knew what the response would be yet went ahead anyway.
That being said, that doesn’t necessarily mean the reactions of the Islamic world have been entirely suitable. Protest at an insult made fair enough, if the the media has the right to insult then Islam has the right to be insulted. But threats of violence and burning down buildings are NOT acceptable. Why do you think these opinions are formed in the first place? I know that the media image of Islam is disproportionate, out of every Muslim I’ve ever met not one was a suicide bomber, but walking up a street with a placard saying ‘the enemies of Islam must be slain’ does not really improve that image, does it?
Thirdly, to those Islamic countries who are boycotting Danish goods over an insult to Islam and yet show caricatures of Jews that Hitler would laugh at, I suggest you should try and keep your hypocrisy in check. If you feel comfortable denying the holocaust (which did undoubtably happen. You can’t really miss a chuffing great execution camp in the middle of Europe, let alone half a dozen of them) or laughing at images of Jews drinking blood, then don’t get up im arms when an inbred from Atlanta laughs at a picture of a bearded chap with a bomnb on his head.
Finally, (I know, you’re thinking ‘at last’) to the aforementioned inbreds in Atlanta and anyone else from the Western world who thinks of Islam as a backward religion, although I appreciate these things can’t be quantified, I would imagine that their total cultural contribution to the world far outweighs that of America. On top of that not every Muslim is a bloke in a bulky vest, in much the same way that not every Christian is a abortion clinic bombing, soldier of God and not every Jew sits hunched in a smokey room counting his interest gains while plotting the downfall of the world.
So to conclude:
1)Feedom of speech comes with responsibilties.
2)Threats of violence, no matter how deep the insult, are never acceptable (and that applies to both sides).
3)You have no right to complain if you are guilty of the charges you are bringing.
4)Hey kids, Islam aint all bad!
That concludes todays lecture.
Comment by RedKip — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 7:22 am UTC
Redkip:
“Forgive me for being dense but what were the last two Gulf wars and the invasion of Afghanistan if not ‘violent reactions’?”
Exactly… Do you really think the world needs more reactions like this, or possibly even worse?! No? Then stop acting like little children who just didn’t get the icecream you wanted and grow up!
“Some element of responsibility goes along with those rights.”
No, it doesn’t! If you feel that something illegal has been stated, bring the offender to court. Otherwise, let the other party practise his/her right to freedom of speech. We all have differing perceptions of what is morally right or wrong and therefore, this concept cannot be allowed to play a part in what should or should not be allowed to be expressed! Basically, you can say anything you want as long as you do not incite to violence or acuse someone else of something untrue – no more and no less!
“4)Hey kids, Islam aint all bad!”
Perhaps not (not sure, though… having lived in Saudi Arabia, I’ve certainly seen the worst that Islam has to offer), but the fact that the supposed vast majority of peaceful muslims don’t take objection to seeing their religion misused by fanatics all over the world can certainly put you in doubt!!! Get up there and show that you want to live in peace with the rest of the world and maybe then you wouldn’t face so much stigma! Show that you will not tolerate arranged marriages, the oppression of females or so-called honor killings and people will certainly get a different view on you!
Comment by Adam B — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 7:45 am UTC
Where is the evidence that osama did 9/11….Only because Fox news says so isnt enough.Why werent the aeroplanes blackboxes revealed,claimimg they were destroyed in heat where as the passports and arabic instructions survived???why dont u guys watch”Stupid white men”..Where r the weapons of mass destruction????my dear westeners…please look beyond your egos…and think fairly
Comment by sarahkhattak — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 8:17 am UTC
sarahkhattak,
Havent u been watching Al-jazeera the past 5 years? UBL and Al-Zawahiri are boasting for their “accomplishment” already. Youre just making excuses that 9/11 is some sort of big Jewish-Christian conspiracy against Muslims. Its people like you who are making the innocent Muslims look bad.
Comment by Cesar of Manila — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 9:07 am UTC
Ayman.
“keeping going on this . and i promise 9/11 of USA will be repeated .”
You have just demonstrated why those cartoons were drawn. Thank you.
————
Redkip,
“1)Feedom of speech comes with responsibilties.”
Yes, it does. But who determines those ?
“2)Threats of violence, no matter how deep the insult, are never acceptable (and that applies to both sides).”
Agreed ! But now that Muslims have actually threatened violence – YET AGAIN, how should the west react ? Should they sit and wait for Ayman’s and the (I’m sure you’ve seen the photo)pictured protester’s promises of another 9/11 to be fulfilled ?
“3)You have no right to complain if you are guilty of the charges you are bringing.”
Again, Agreement here.
Muslim cartoons
More
yet more
Finally, drawings of Muhammad through out history
“4)Hey kids, Islam aint all bad!”
And you have something perhaps, that is other than a vapid cliche or a Muslim’s word for that ?
Could you share with me the evidence you have that Islam really does have a good influence on someone somewhere ?
Or, that Islam and it’s pratcitioners are tolerant of others(including fellow Muslims).
I’ve been looking for the past week, and I personally have not found too much. From reading the Qur’an and looking through the recent past news articles(from around the world – non-USA/UK news sources) what I’ve seen is Islam appears to be PETTY, VINDICTIVE, CAPRICIOUS and VIOLENT and it teaches and inspires it adherents to be the same.
If you have other information, then would you be so kind as to share that with me.
BTW – I’m non-Christian, so any inference to Atlanta’s inhabitants or abortion clinic bombers would not be useful.
Thank you in advance.
————
Adam B.
Agreed on all points !
Comment by Chazyk — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 9:12 am UTC
Ayman M:
All it would take would be “9/11 of USA will be repeated” and the West would react by bombing Muslim countries back to the stone age. But I doubt most of you could even tell the difference. With the mentality that most of you have, I’m surprised your countries are able to maintain electrical power without outside assistance.
Comment by Crusader — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 10:25 am UTC
sarahkhattak:
You are utterly stupid and not worthy of a serious reply in regard to the bullshit you’re peddeling in regard to 9/11. Drown in your ignorance, bitch.
Comment by Crusader — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 10:38 am UTC
crusader,
who said they’re not in the period now? LOL
Comment by Cesar of Manila — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 11:01 am UTC
Crusader,
Apparently, the Muslim Imams do not seem to appreciate the fact that the west has been very patient thus far.
It also seems to be a shame that the few Muslims that are educated and literate spend all of their time attempting to rationalize and justify the actions of those Muslims responsible for violence, instead of communicating to those people, the reality of the situation that does exist and the inapproprateness of many Muslim actions and reactions.
Take note Muslims of how it looks from here. Many of the western nations are nuclear powers or closely aligned and allied with them. In fact, Israel is a nuclear power that the west does NOT control.
If another 9/11 type of attack were to occur to one of those nuclear nations or it’s allies, it would not be too difficult to imagine that a retaliation of the most severe nature could occur.
Indeed, I have read many opinions of people far more irritated about the situation, than I or my fellow moderates, suggesting that the world could solve it’s petroleum problem, Middle eastern unrest, and the issue of Muslim threats and violence at the very same time.
Here’s a little more insight to that comment. I’m sorry if it may appear offensive, but it’s that nasty democratic freedom of speech thing that Muslims just don’t understand and can’t appreciate. A joke I keep hearing people tell goes something like this. The deserts of middle east would make a nice flat irradiated glass parking lot for the world’s largest uninhabited cheap petroleum supply.
Hopefully, calmer minds can prevail.
Comment by Chazyk — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 11:43 am UTC
Well, I’ve been reading a lot of blogs regarding the matter in hand, and never posted any comments until now. I’m a Egyptian Muslim. First of all I’d like to thank:
Cesar of Manila,
Swampdog,
Paul Watson,
RedKip,
Kyle,
RaVeN,
For their civilized comments and I agree with most of them.
I’d like to add my point of view.
MY BELIEFES:
1- I was offended upon seeing the images.
2- I respect the Idea of freedom of speech and expression
3- I don’t have the right to force my beliefs upon you or anyone else.
4- I have the right to express my bitterness.
5- I also believe that respect and curtsey are qualities needed while communicating with others, it’s not an obligation just consider it highly recommended.
6- Violence, aggression, threats…..etc I totally, by all means “religiously, ethically†unacceptable, on the contrary it always leads to an undesired outcome.
7- From were I stand I can tell for sure at least here in Egypt the matter did not exceed more than few voices calling for boycotting the Danish products, I’m sure if there are some calling for more than that, they are so few that they have no impact whatsoever.
8- The fabric of the Egyptian Muslim community consists of the following:
05% Know nothing whatsoever about it
30% below average Muslims
50% moderate Muslims
15% Extremists
9- The above figures are speculations on my behalf and not based on statistics, just based on my daily life dealing with other Egyptians.
My Status:
1- The Danish prime minister stated his position ……understood.
2- The newspaper apologized; I think twice maybe….Apology accepted.
3- People calling for boycotting are acceptable but went a little bit far, do as you please, but there is no need for it.
4- Any counter threats addressed towards Islamists are understandable.
5- I really whish that westerns do believe that what they see is only a small portion of the Muslim society.
Cesar of Manila
my only qualm is… if the greater majority of you are ‘moderate’ like you seem to be, there is obviously a lack of action from you guys. If you stamp out the radicals in your society, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
You are absolutely right, but the problem remains that people have been suppressed for a long time now, that I believe they almost don’t care any more for any thing and even if they did, it’s for a short term and every thing is back to normal.
If someone doesn’t stand up for his own rights that serve his own direct interests, how can you ask someone like that to take a stand against someone else’s actions?
In my opinion we have to start teaching people how to think for themselves for a change, and start to stand up to their standards. This is going to be a long process and hopefully the politically and economically reforms “although the slow pace†we are experiencing might aid and speed it up.
just my 2cents.
Comment by M. Ghareib — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 12:13 pm UTC
It’s Ok for Muslims to put down People of other religion believes, But say one thing about the great Mohammed who teaches his people to kill, kill, kill people with other believes. I think the world would be a better place without the Savages in this world. “Hey Muslims†Before people we can accept you as an equal, you must become a human
Comment by tony — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 12:32 pm UTC
M. Ghareib:
I agree with you through nearly the whole thing – can’t tell about the composition of the egyptian society, I haven’t been there. Egypt, however, is obviously not the greatest of our worries.
Just two small points…
There is a rather huge difference between an individual and a country turning to boycots – the first is freedom of choice, the second is a breach of the WTO treaties signed by most (and certainly all implicated) countries of the world.
There is also a huge difference between an individual thinking an apology is in order, and a country demanding an apology and the punishment of someone who has not broken any laws from another government. The first is voicing your opinion, the second is demanding the impossible, unreasonable and illegal.
The danes (and many other westernes) may look at muslim protesters and feel that these have completely missed the point, but that’s pretty much it – in our eyes they have the right to complain as much as they want. We do not, however, look with understanding at regimes that break international law and fail to stop their populations in commiting violence against our citizens and embassies.
Protest – yes
Break international law – no
Comment by Adam — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 12:53 pm UTC
How dare the metropolitan police not arrest this muslim minoraty which bring shame on my religion!
Clearly some of these placards are incitement to violence, and indeed incitement to murder – an extremely serious offence which the police must deal with and deal with quickly
The police did not deal with these people like they deal with football hooligans or the protesters who are ex-minors. Which i feel they should as they broke the law by insiting ratial hatrid and murder, and protested outside the houses of parliment which not to long a go a woman was arrested for only calling out the names of the soldiers who died in the war in iraq!
I dont understand why we law obiding, muslims or humans of any other faiths, who are british sitizens,that have come here to escape from dictators and to have the frredom of speach in europ have to suffer from an evel minority!?!
How dare Jack straw say:
However, Mr Straw suggested a parody of Christianity would also provoke strong feelings.
“If people looked at these cartoons and were to replace the of the Holy Prophet with images of Jesus Christ or the Virgin Mary, they can see that, even in our culture, if they were directed at the Judeo-Christian traditions, there would be similar outrage,”
I completely am in shock that a politition can say that if he saw these images replace by Jesus Christ or the Virgin Mary he or any othere cristial will not burn down the Danish embercy.
Comment by Muhamed Fata — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 1:04 pm UTC
u peple cant blame the religion Islam 4 every fuckin thing dat piss’s u off
Comment by Rej — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 1:11 pm UTC
“I completely am in shock that a politition can say that if he saw these images replace by Jesus Christ or the Virgin Mary he or any othere cristial will not burn down the Danish embercy.”
Therein lies part of the problem.
The western cultures that have free speech are littered with images of Jesus, Mary, God and many other things considered sacred by someone, and people do not burn buildings nor theaten violence because of them – they may personally want to, but they are prohibited by laws from doing so – they are also aware of the freedom of speech and what it can mean.
In the west, violence or theats thereof are entirely inappropriate responses to some one else’s freedom to say or portray their opinion about something or just because a person or group of people do not agree.
As you pointed out the reason you left your country of origin, was totalitarianism.
Muslims have never had freedom of speech therefore, they do not understand what it is.
In the west, there are great debates as to what is protected by that freedom, and how to best protect it.
Yes, in western cultures, a person may have strong feelings about what they believe or worship, but those feelings do not give anyone the right to break the law.
Threats of violence and destruction of property are illegal – drawing cartoons is not.
Comment by Chazyk — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 1:46 pm UTC
Adam
You have a point, but I was referring specifically to the people not to the regimes, because I think reforming the way people think will eventually lead to changing and/or reforming the regime. Confrontation “with the regime†at the moment will only lead to drastic results and we are back to suppression and less rights… etc. Young people are exposed to world now more than ever, internet, forums… Discussions, and as long as we keep on having those Discussions I believe there is hope.
Comment by M. Ghareib — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 1:46 pm UTC
And if you haven’t tired of it completely, just released in the news, another offended Muslim on the offensive.
More censorship
You’ll notice the timing.
Comment by Chazyk — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 2:46 pm UTC
Cheryl:
“Islam” is not a “race”–instead it is a *belief system*. As a result, its open to critical review–just as any other belief system is.
Rej:
Nobody is blaming Islam for “everything that pisses (us) off”. Instead, we’re blaming Islam and its most radical adherents for having no capatibility with the freedoms we have by law in democratic society–including the freedom to be critical of religions and religious icons.
Comment by Crusader — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 3:25 pm UTC
SHAME ON ALL PEOPLE…NO MATTER WHAT RACE.NONE OF US SHOULD JUDGE. WE ALL HAVE FAULTS. WE ALL SHOULD BE STRIVING EVERYDAY TO OVERCOME THEM AND BECOME BETTER HUMAN BEINGS. BE GOOD TO EACH OTHER, DO WHAT IS RIGHT. THAT SIMPLE ,WE MAKE IT COMPLICATED. LET LOVE RULE YOUR HEART NOT HATE. THERE IS GOOD & EVIL. IT IS WHAT YOU LET IT BE. EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON. RAISE YOUR CHILDREN NOT TO HATE THAT IS WHERE IT STARTS.
Comment by cheryl — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 3:32 pm UTC
Chazyk
It’s quite late and I’m not going to give you a detailed history of Islam but I shall endevour to give you a few pointers while trying to avoid any ‘vapid cliches’.
I thought philosophy would be a decent starting block because there is usually something that appeals to everone so you could try Ikhan al-Safa who advocated spiritual liberation through philosophical discourse or the historian, sociologist and philosopher Ibn Khaldun. You mentioned you’re an atheist so maybe you would prefer the cynics Ibn ar-Rawandi or Muhammed ibn Zakariyya’ al-Razi. All these scholars were translating, adapting and using Greek philosophy while Europe was grubbing around in the mud. If science is more your bent, you could look up the work of Ibn al-Haythan, al-Birunni or Ibn Sina whose al-Qanun fi’l-tibb (Canons of Medicine) was the standard medical text book in the West until the eighteenth century.
I think that is possibly enough to go on for now, that little lot should take you a while to get through. That’s before I’ve got on to the architects, poets, sportsmen and whoever else have graced this earth.
Oh and finally, some of you seem to have the impression that I’m a Muslim. I’m afraid I was born in Devon to white, Christian parents and was myself a Baptist until I went to university and decided this whole religion lark wasn’t for me as everyone seems to get so het up about it.
Anyway, it’s late and I have work tomorrow, so I shall address the rest of your critisicms some other time.
Comment by RedKip — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 5:16 pm UTC
I think we all should respect everyones religion and what some of you guys saying about my religion and my Prophet is non tolerable by all the muslims.
By saying all these bad things about Islam and Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) you guys will make all the Muslims angry, and when Muslims get angry then you ppl know “WHAT HAPPENS”.
Comment by Komi — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 5:16 pm UTC
Komi:
No, I’m sure we don’t know “WHAT HAPPENS”. Why don’t you make it clear for us?
Comment by Crusader — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 5:46 pm UTC
I’m as outraged by the reaction of CNN and other western organisations that refuse to stand by Denmark and the idealogy of what free speach truly stands for. February 7 during the 6 pm broadcast, on CNN, they annonced that they would not run the cartoon depicting muhammad that started this controversy and I am ashamed of them. If any news organisation will not stand up for the other papers to defend our most precious RIGHT in a democratic society then I,as I hope others will, intend to get my news coverage from other sources until they change their minds. Freedom of speech is the first and most important step for any free nation. It must be protected, at any cost, even in the fervor of religous, radical , violent opposition. I do not believe in freedom from responsibility of one’s actions, but am entrenched in the belief that freedom of speech is paromount to the free exchange of ideas, religion, political divides and any other areas were debate should be possible without the threat of violence, imprisonment or loss of life. It is only with these protections that every christian, jew, muslim or buddhist will ever be able to truly enjoy living in a diverse and multicultural world. Freedom of SPEECH, and I can’t repeat this enough, is about expressing values and feellings and should never be allowed to be used to incite people to do harm. It is so that we may all follow the God or Prophet or lifestyle choice that we choose without fear of the kind of violence we are seeing again. We are always responsible for our actions, and that includes muslims. I am equally sickened by the seeming lack of condemnation by my own government of the ACTIONS of the muslims that have set fire to several embassies. The Canadian Government should be one of the first in the world to stand up in defiance of the kind of oppresion muslims impose on the rest of the world. As many other nations around the world have, we have opened our doors to members of the muslim community. They are free to build mosques, practice their faith and dress according to their religous beliefs. We changed the dress code in our own police and RCMP ranks so people that wear religous headress may continue to do so and still enjoy the oppurtinity of serving with other members of the community. When the whole world bends over to allow you this kind of unabashed religous freedom, and the freedom to express your beliefs and feelings in open and safe debates in the media, on our streets, and in every other area of society, how big a hypocrite do you have to be to carry a sign( I saw it myself on CNN ) that reads “freedom of speech go to hell”.
Comment by lukech — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 6:01 pm UTC
Why isn’t anyone talking about what Islamists did to images of Budda back in 2001? No Buddhists firebombed or beheaded people in retaliation of the desecration of images of their guru?
FLASHBACK from March 2001: “Ignoring an international outcry, Afghanistan’s puritanical Taliban Islamic militia began demolishing statues across the country on Thursday, including two towering ancient stone Buddhas”.
Comment by Rod — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 7:48 pm UTC
Redkip,
First, let me say Thank you for addressing my comments.
I was apparently not very clear in expressing myself in addressing your comments. It was not my intention to be antagonistic with my questions – I apologize if it appeared that way.
I was not really referring to the achievements of historical figures, such as those you mentioned. I am quite aware of the many great philosophical and scientific contributions made by members of the Muslim culture.
However, I would not really think it a good idea comparing those people, their ideals and interactions in the world of their time period, with the present day Muslims that are the focus of the cartoons in question, or those extremists that were by their actions, exemplified and satirized by the caricatures.
What my original questions to you regarded, was more contemporary. I was hoping you would have something that I have not found as of yet – that being – an example of what current Muslims are contributing to the world showing Islam as peaceful. Perhaps some kind of philanthropy, altruism or attempt to make the world a better place for others ? Maybe some scientific break through for humanity ? Or how about a peace initiative ? As I mentioned, I have not found much yet.
If as you mentioned, you know that Islam ain’t that bad, I figured you would be the one to have that information.
I am also glad you took the time to point out that you are who you are. To be honest, it doesn’t matter too much to me, although I guess it does give me some idea about what may have influenced your current thoughts. I wonder if I am to suppose though, that maybe your Baptist Christian upbringing somehow makes you believe that if I mentioned I was non-Christian, that as you seemed to indicate, it would somehow automatically mean that I would have to be an atheist. However, allow me suggest that this really would not necessarily have to be the case.
Comment by Chazyk — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 7:51 pm UTC
lukech,
I agree ! I have ceased to get my news from sources that publically announced that Freedom of speech was of little importance to their organization by not supporting the Danish press.
If you have not done so already, I would recommend sending your sentiments directly to some of those organizations to let them know your opinion of the importance of Freedom of speech.
I would also encourage you to send your support to Jyllands-Posten directly at: jp@jp.dk and add your voice to those who stand behind the concept of Freedom of speech. There are also several petitions on the internet to do the same thing. Also, you can help by buying Danish products. Check out journalist Michelle Malkins web site for more information about involvement.
Comment by Chazyk — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 8:19 pm UTC
CNN is still on the air? News to me. Heh.
Rod: “Why isn’t anyone talking about what Islamists did to images of Budda back in 2001? No Buddhists firebombed or beheaded people in retaliation of the desecration of images of their guru?”
That’s been addressed above, or at least partially. Allow me to explain. We’ve been told both that when there have been other religious symbols defaced “it doesn’t make it right” and “that we Muslims respect our religion and stand up for it.” So, I suppose, those of us who are not Muslim and not outraged by the cartoons are athiests and silly pacifists who don’t find it fitting to burn down embassies or be completely outraged over the drawing of who we choose to worship or not worship, peaceful protests aside.
There is a greater irony in all of this. Many, not all, comments speaking out against the cartoons show something very evident if you have read every comment several times over like I have. There is a superiority complex. “When will you re-vert?” “When you learn the truth.” “Don’t argue with the Kaffirs.” Now who tells the world’s media time and time again the West thinks we’re superior? How come none of my Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist friends care whether or not I am a part of their religion but some commenters on this thread are just incensed over others beliefs?
We keep hearing oppression and the nation which does the oppression is usually named as Israel. Yep, thost damn Jews are everywhere. They oppressed me the other day when I couldn’t move into the right-hand lane and exit the highway because of traffic. What’s interesting though is that many of those comments do not come from Palestine but places like Saudi Arabia and Iran. How can anyone speak badly of oppression but put up with the Mullahs reign of Iran? To those people, get your priorities straight. Other than being the founders of the religion of Islam, the Jews did nothing to you.
On another note . . . I am sick and tired of getting 20 emails per day both asking and threatening me to take the one picture of the cartoon off this post. I won’t do it so quit asking. There’s material everywhere on this site that someone would find offensive. I don’t do politically correct and I am not sorry if I offend someone. I too have been offended, though that’s hard to do, but I don’t threaten those who offend me. I don’t tell them “their will be a jihad on ur hed” in all of it’s grammatical and spelling malfunction. Please, no more emails asking or threatening me to take the image off this post. Condemn me to Hell if you wish, that’s fine. If Mohammed was a prophet then I am already going to Hell because I don’t believe he was a prophet in the first place. There’s a difference though, I don’t care that some believe he was a prophet. Good for them and I respect that. Have some respect for those that don’t or simply don’t care.
If we cannot discuss openly any matter we choose to, you have no freedom and you have no right to live in the bubble of oppression. The image was not meant to offend, but I can’t help it if many find a stupid little cartoon offensive.
Comment by Chad Evans — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 8:45 pm UTC
I would like to take a few seconds to express my freedome of speech. Please do not read further if you feel you may succomb to an urge to lynch me or kill innocents because of what I am about to say!
F*%& all who would kill children and other innocents in the name of your f*%&ing god!!!!! You are not worth the urine it would take to piss on your head.
So far, whe have been able to keep our childrens eyes diverted from the images of ugly, horrible, angry mobs, and death of mostly civilian innocents, and all the other horrors of war. But I go to sleep each night knowing that there are other children, in other places in the world, who cannot excape this absolute hell their parents are putting them through by being the purpatraitors of these acts. You should all be ashamed to be associated with an organization or religion that would support and encourage this behavior.
Peace to all peaceful peoples, warning to all those who would harm peaceful peoples!
Comment by Steve Z — Tuesday, February 7, 2006 @ 9:03 pm UTC
The Koran has been interpreted by muslim extremists as condoning and promoting terrorism and the killing of any living creature that is not muslim. This includes babies and children. They even kill muslims who do business with westerners. Mohammed is one of their prophets. You put it together.
Just look at what the Islamic world is doing because of the cartoon. They’re killing. It’s what they do.
It’s all they know. The only way to get them to stop is to simply kick their arab ass. We have to kick ass BEFORE we talk, not the other way around. I’m glad we’re in Iraq, between Israel and Iran. I say we just nuke Iran befor they nuke Israel and let Allah sort them out.
Just wait until they start their crap again here in America. I tell you now, we’ll have to immediately round up all of the young Arab muslims and eliminate the bad ones. It WILL come to that.
Comment by E. Dogg — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 1:18 am UTC
Christains, Jews, Buddhists have had to tolerate ridicule by others toward their leaders. Jesus, Moses, and Buddha himself have all be made fun of by other religious groups.
I am not afraid of speaking out Komi, #191. I don’t give a crap about you or your religion just like you don’t give a crap about mine. We simply tolerate your miserable existence on the planet. You and your girlfriends have infested America and there’s only one way to rid this country of an infestation. 75% of Americans own guns. Get as mad as you want you coward. Put a mask on your face and kill babies, then run and hide in hole, this is your religion?
We’re in the middle east to rid the world of scum baby killers and that’s where you belong.
Comment by E. Dogg — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 1:43 am UTC
Don’t listen to the above crap (E. Dogg)- there will of course be no eliminating anywhere in the west!
We may be tired of high crime rates and moral support to terror in the muslim youths of our countries, but our way of dealing with those is through dialogue (although the tone might change considerably), legal coersion to eliminate any anti-democratic arab/muslim customs and general efforts to intigrate them into the society.
That being said, any state funding or support of future terrorist acts against the west, is likely to meet a much more concerted effort of elimination from our part. The need for oil nonewithstanding, we will not accept another 9.11 or London bombing with a shrug if it can be made clear and proven that any regime is actively supportive of such efforts. For good or bad, such actions will mean conflict on a completely different level than what we are seeing now.
Comment by Adam B — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 2:34 am UTC
Abu Hamza rot in hell u peice of muslemon crap,and i realy think all other muslemos who say anyting wrong lock em up and their family to b deported the end off the story
Comment by world war 3 — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 5:56 am UTC
yo you all need to wake up,,they r scum and that is that,why try and sort it out they aint going to stop for noting,its just a nother reason to start trouble,aint it muslemons
Comment by world war 3 — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 5:59 am UTC
please europeons wake up…. These cartoons were 1st published in september 2005. Why did it take so long for things to get ugly????…..Because the Europe didnt side with the Americans when it invaded Iraq, now they r getting ready to invade Iran, and they want europe to side with them….Its an American scheme to decrease europeon sympathies toward Muslims.They are using their media and every resource to meet this end
Comment by sarahkhattak — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 6:06 am UTC
Crusader…did all the crusaders use abusive language like u do in a normal discussion??? No wonder they never succeeded
Ceaser from manila …Why dont you just watch the documentary”Stupid white men” Then we will again start the discussion.
Comment by sarahkhattak — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 6:24 am UTC
dear sarah, what the fudgin hell is your damage.. how many reporters did you personally see in those IMAGES throwin rocks or lighting fires. It absolutely amazes me how fools like you can lay blame on anyone but the people(muslims in the crowd)for starting those fires. It boggles my mind. It is the people with the match that are to blame. If you want to say that the muslim rioters were incited by the cartoon then YOU would be at least on the right track. That doesn’t mean the conveyance of an idea the way this cartoon did is proper justification for VIOLENCE. Thats what this is. I have said for years that your attitude is what I personally call BATTERED WIFE SYNDROM. Some a-hole smacks his wife around for years and instead of the poor lady seeing it as the abuse it is, she defends the action as she feels dominated or like she has no place to go. Don’t you dare,DARE, try to blame reporters, the west, or ME, for the hateful action,-overreactions, of any group of people. HAVE A NICE DAY ——LUKECH………P.S.–CALL PEOPLE OUT FOR THE THINGS THEYS SAY,, BUT HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE THINGS THEY DO
Comment by lukech — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 9:48 am UTC
The idiocy continues. It’s hard to imagine anyone
getting upset over those cartoons. It’s a religion
for cying outloud. A personal freakin’ belief. It
shows the weakness of the mind(s) of these people.
If you can’t tolerate something as innocuous as
those cartoons you are an imature fool.
But that’s not the real issue is it? Look at who
the instigators are. The crap headed Imuthas who
should be shot for inciting riots. True colors,
baby. True colors. Show us more of the kinda
crap you are.
Comment by RJM — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 9:51 am UTC
Im an atheist, Muslims need to understand that quite frankly most of the western world couldnt give a fuck about their religion or the rules of it. i learn about religion in school, but i have no time for it, i can see what it is there for. However, i feel sorry for the innocent peaceful muslims living in the western world who are cringing at the actions of the immature and narrowminded thugs that call themselves religious.
The true muslims need to speak out and voice their opinions, with no threats, boycotts etc. Just with a voice of reason and understanding. oh and BUY DANISH.
Comment by dave benson — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 10:22 am UTC
sarahkhattak:
You have made it manifestly clear that you are too stupid to be in this discussion. “Stupid White Men” is NOT a “documentary”–its instead a horrifically slanted opinion piece (much like everything that comes out of your mouth). You have ZERO clue as to what “free speech” consists of–it specifically includes the right to make comments regarding religions (even made-up ones like Islam) and religious leaders (especially pedophillic “prophets” like Muhammad).
Comment by Crusader — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 10:51 am UTC
Damn religion. I find it very strange that a lot is
being said about ignorance, when the hieght of ignorance
is being reveiled through religion. If you believe in god, good. Thinking that your religous beliefs are somehow divine in nature is backward and unenlightening. Especially the one these idiots are affiliated with. This was a last ditch effort to control simple minded individuals who can’t think their way out of an outhouse. Current events proves this beyoind a doubt.
Comment by RJM — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 11:18 am UTC
sarahkhattak,
American scheme? I didn’t realize the U.S. government paid the Danish Imams which toured the Middle East to bring these cartoons to the attention of governments in the region. I didn’t realize the American government would tell these imams to take three pictures which were never published, one of which was of a man with a pig snout at a game show, and claim they are a pattern of anti-Muslim feeling in Denmark.
Denmark is already in Iraq, so too have many other European nations. France and Germany do not equal Europe. Have you actually, you know, read anything in relation to the Danish cartoons and the war in Iraq other than what you saw in some stupid movie?
But . . . this conversation is over with you until you watch the movies ‘Fletch’ and ‘Fletch Lives.’ There are no tags on these matresses. Sounds stupid, right? So too is believing Stupid White Men deals in facts instead of conspiracy theories.
Comment by Rob — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 12:05 pm UTC
As I drank my morning coffee and worked my way through the latest news, I stumbled upon a gem which I thought I would share – and perhaps find out if anyone else had seen the actual cartoon by “Charlie-Hebdo”.
Apparently, he released one in a French newspaper that has Muhammad with his head in his hands and a caption that says “It’s hard to be loved by Idiots”. Yes Muhammed, Charlie got that one spot-on !
If anyone has a reference to the original Charlie-Hebdo cartoon, post a link here – I would appreciate the full effect.
Thank you in advance.
Comment by Chazyk — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 12:18 pm UTC
I have never felt more compelled to take a step back then I do at this present moment. All of this hate and rage over a political cartoon? I just simply don’t understand. The stance of a political cartoon is one of irony, of satire. They are not meant for direct translation. They are a tool to provoke thought and reflection, not violence and death.
Comment by Scott — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 12:22 pm UTC
Chazyk
Terribly sorry, I have just read over your original post and you do indeed say ‘non-Christian’. Sorry for my presumptions, as I said, I’m a bit of a non-believer now in a (mostly) secular society and the vast majority of my discussions of this nature are with fundamentalist scientists so unless otherwise inferred I usually assume I’m talking to atheists.
I must also apologise for misreading your comments, I didn’t realise you ment modern Islam. I can’t claim to be an expert on Islam (hell, I studied Russian Politics at university) but if you read into the Sufi sect of Islam as I’m lead to believe they subscribe to the more mystical elements of Islam, are usualy pacifist and include a lot of dance and song in their worship. Again I’m going to be a shameful coward and include the caveat that I could be getting the completely wrong end of the stick.
As to address some of the earlier comments:
Adam B:
I agree with a lot of what you say but I still think that any right to free speech comes with some responsibilities. The meer fact that you say incitment to violence is unacceptable means to a certain extent you agree with me. If I was to come up to you and claim I would like to sleep with your hypotyhetical wife and then have your hypothetical daughter for afters, I would be bang out of order. I wouldn’t be breaking the law or inciting violence, yet I’m sure you would agree I should really keep my mouth shut. If you were a homosexual and didn’t want your family to find out to avoid a rift and I went and told them, I’m exercising my right to free speech but I’ve made your life hell. I have the responsibilty to respect your wishes.
Chazyk:
In reference to your other comments, it is incredibly difficult to make a ruling as to where the respionsibilities start and stop, what is ok to say and what is not, and that seems to the jam the international community is in right now.
As to a response to a violent threat. Where does it stop? I know you can’t sit back and let things hapen to you, but if the more moderate elements of the Islmaic world could step up to the wicket and try and calm the situation (as either yourself or Adam B suggested) then discourse is infintly preferable to violence in my book.
I hope that clears my position some what. If not feel free to barrage me with more questions.
I’m not ‘anti-West’ and ‘pro-Muslim’ in the same way that I’m not ‘pro-West’ or ‘anti-Islam’. I feel that both sides have made mistakes and it will be the poor average chap in the middle that will feel the brunt of any fall out.
Comment by RedKip — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 12:25 pm UTC
I must also apologise for the horrendous grammer and numerous spelling mistakes in the above post.
Comment by RedKip — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 12:34 pm UTC
Rob:
It is nice to see somebody else who understands the understated political genuis that is “Fletch”. Thanks for reminding me of the debt that free men everywhere owe to Chevy Chase.
Comment by Crusader — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 1:35 pm UTC
RedKip:
The problem is that “responsibilities” as opposed to restrictions lain down by law is 1: subjective and 2: not punishable. The latter speaks for itself, but the first is where the real meaning of freedom of speech lies. Subjectiveness means that there will always be someone who feels that something you say is out of bounds for one reason or another. The problem is you can´t make everyone happy, so the law has decided on some factors that needs to be in place in order to keep a civilized society on track. If someone takes offence at something not in this category, like the examples you give in your post, they will unfortunately just have to swallow it and move on, or choose some other (legal!) course of action.
I personally see nothing offensive in a caricature (never truly serious by nature anyway) that just shows the view of one group towards another. In my eyes, muslims have brought themselves in a position where caricatures such as this reflect more truth than they should, and instead of causing angry and abusive responses, they should in fact cause reflection of self. Sorry if I offend anyone or sound conceited, but I DO see the societies of the west as being at least intellectually superior to that of the arab/muslim world – at least we are infinately more self-critical, a fact that can be seen in the diversity of political views and debates in our societies.
Comment by Adam — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 4:20 pm UTC
I am so frustrated with the comments I read from most muslims in this matter.
1. Why is it that you cannot see that 12 cartoons of a religious figure, and burning embassies and issuing threats of death and violence are not even close to being in the same category?
2. It has been said a million times, so please listen: there have been countless caricatures of Jesus and other religious figures in Danish newspapers over the years. Countless. This is not a crusade against Islam. It never has been.
3. You do not have to agree with a drawing or an article to respect the author or cartoonist’s right to make said drawing or article. Please understand that disagreement does not equal censorship.
4. Denmark as nation has nothing to do with this. The government cannot in any way shape or form control what the press writes. Demanding apologies from government, queen or your average Bent on the street is completely unreasonable, because they have no say in this matter.
5. If you wish the west to respect your culture and your traditions in your own countries, you must do the same for us. We have freedom of speech. Disagree with our ways all you want, but respect our right to have our own values. Just like you have yours.
Comment by Elora — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 9:48 pm UTC
DEAR REDKIP ; with all due respect, you’re making our point for us.
Comment by lukech — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 10:23 pm UTC
redkip : sorry , hit the button before i was finished . so here it is. “”"” If you were a homosexual and didn’t want your family to find out to avoid a rift and I went and told them, I’m exercising my right to free speech but I’ve made your life hell. I have the responsibilty to respect your wishes.”"”"”
This is NOT freedom of speech. Free speech is when you tell joe homosexual that you disagree with his lifestyle, or print a silly cartoon about him. Irresponsible behaviour that Directly harms a person or co-opts his ability to make the types of choices like you suggest are done with the distinct purpose of harming and in some way taking away a persons right to self government. It is just this very distinction between the ability to debate a point of view that impacts a persons life (freedom of speech) and the ability to take action that deprives people anywhere of property or libery that crosses the line and has become an action. Ideas and feelings, religious or political, are nescessary for understanding one another. Choosing for other people the path their life should take is a much more slippery slope and it is also ACTIONABLE.
Comment by lukech — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 10:36 pm UTC
GET OVER IT IT WAS A CARTOON
Comment by tom — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 10:36 pm UTC
Chazyk,, thank you for that link. I did send a brief letter and am going to look for some of the other sites to get more involved tomorrow. Unfortunetaly , having trouble finding any info on where to find danish products where I live so will have to actually get in touch with our consulate here for help. This is already becoming a hot topic in toronto and at least one professor here has been threatened for supporting the right to print this cartoon. buy danish. LUKECH
Comment by lukech — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 10:54 pm UTC
Lukech,
Here’s a couple of links to start you off and maybe save you a minute or two of searching:
http://www.petitiononline.com/danmark/petition.html
http://supportdenmark.com/
http://buydanish.home.comcast.net/
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004455.htm
And here’s a couple of local one’s in your neck of the woods that I picked up on the web. Ok they may not be Denmark proper, but they may know where to buy Danish products locally(besides the pastry(Yumm!)).
http://danishpastry.ca/
http://pages.ca.inter.net/~robuch/fwebsite.htm
Buy Danish – support Freedom of Speech !
Comment by Chazyk — Wednesday, February 8, 2006 @ 11:37 pm UTC
lukech:
Just look for butter or bacon! ;o)
If you got kids – LEGO.
If you´re loaded with money, look for B&O stereo’s!
But seriously, Denmark has the strongest economy in Europe at the moment and as of yet, we haven’t felt any impact from the middle east boycot. If you really wanna make an economic statement, don’t buy your petrol at Q8 or whoever sells arabian oil…
On a different note, we’ve seen a lot of muslims in Denmark voice their offence at the reactions of their fellow muslims in the middle- and far east – nice to hear them voice their more reasonable opinion for once although it seems a bit sad that we need a crisis of this caliber to get them out of the chair…
Comment by Adam — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 12:10 am UTC
MUSLEMONS OFF THE WORLD BEWARE…IF YOU CARRY ON THE WAY YOU ARE GOING THEN THEIR IS NO PLACE ON THIS WORLD FOR YOU..MAYBE YOUR RACE COULD B THE FIRST TO GO ON A FIRST TIME JURNEY TO PLUTO OR SOMWHERE LIKE THAT…DONT U C THAT THE WORLD IS TURNING AGAINST YOU AT A VERY FAST RATE…YOU BEST TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT YOUR SIT OR IT WILL BE TO LATE FOR YOU…..BANG..
Comment by world war 3 — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 2:49 am UTC
THIS IS MY QUOTE OF THE DAY……..I TAKE MY SHOE AND HIT ABU THE CRAPIE MUSLEMON WANT NO WHAT TO DO…
Comment by world war 3 — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 2:54 am UTC
The movie Stupid White men, won the special jury award….none of the members were muslims
If you cant discuss a point logically, you should not resort to abuse and personal attacks…makes you look bad and also your parents who brought you up…Crusader Please stop using abuse and insulting language against My prophet.
Comment by sarah — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 6:31 am UTC
loosen up eh, or go back to the sand and stick your head in there until you can handle a little teasing, nothing but a bunch of cry babies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by cme — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 8:49 am UTC
Dear Muslim Brother and Sister, (for the second time), please don’t say anything in this useless discussion. A kafir will never UNDERSTAND. The reason is because THEY ARE KAFIR. Nauzubillah.
Comment by fsyukri — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 9:27 am UTC
Sarah:
There have been plenty of materials which “won awards” that in the end turned out to be nothing but opinion pieces. If you get all of your political talking points from a horrifically flawed piece of work like Michael Moore, you evidence yet again that you don’t belong in this discussion.
Oh, and SCREW your (alleged) “prophet”–he was nothing other than a murderer and a pedophile.
Comment by Crusader — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 10:30 am UTC
fsyukri:
This “kafir” will never be your dhimmi. Go back to your miserable Islamic hell-hole and leave civilization to those who understand what free speech means.
Comment by Crusader — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 10:37 am UTC
fsyukri:
Well, you certainly reinforce all the worst fears of the west towards muslims (and all my worst personal experiences!)…
Why do people like you insist on having anything to do with us if you feel so secure in your superiority?
Why do you buy our products?
Why do you sell us your oil?
Why do you employ thousands of skilled westerners in your hospitals and industri?
Why do tens of thousands of you seek asylum in our countries every year?
Why do your countries accept hundreds of millions of dollars in aid from us every year?
Why do you care what our newspapers say?
…and considering your attitude towards us, why should we care about your opinion or feelings?
Comment by Adam — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 10:40 am UTC
Just to put the reactions in the muslim world in perspective…
From the news today: Last night saw violent riots in a small town outside Islamabad, Pakistan, after copies of the Koran was found in the town sewers. At least 3000 angry people descended on the town and proceeded to burn cars and a cinema as well as throw rocks at random as a protest against the presumed desecration of the Koran.
Beatifull! Nobody knows who put the books in the sewer or why, but nevermind – we’ll just burn some random cars and buildings and throw rocks at whatever we want to! That is most certainly what our god would want us to do!
Morons!
Comment by Adam — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 10:48 am UTC
Practitioners of the religion of peace,
I find it interesting how you “Moderate Mulims” continually gloss over the fact that only “a small group” of your bretheren propogate the horrible acts that we have seen accross the globe. Here’s an interesting fact that I have not heard anyone point out. It’s repeatedly said that 90% of the world’s Muslims are peace-loving people, and renounce the radical 10% of their flock. Well, the last time I checked there are 1 Billion+ Muslims on this planet. If 10% are radical, then there are a hell of a lot Muslims “in the trenches” ready to kill or convert us infidels. Furthermore, when atrocities take place in Spain, Russia, Israel, U.S., and elsewhere, your moderate silence is a resounding affirmation of those acts commited.
Where was your outrage in the streets of Spain after 200 were killed? Where was your outrage when Russian school children were forced to subsist off their own urine only to be mowed down by AK47′s and finally bombed? Where was your outrage in the streets of London? Where is your outrage for Christian women in the Sudan who routinely have their breasts cut off so they can’t feed their own children? Where is your outrage when Indonesian Christian girls are decapitated??
The answer…IT’S NOT THERE!!! NOR WILL IT EVER BE, AND YOU KNOW IT!! You cowards let your “braver” ilk do your dirty work, and then try to get us to buy your politically correct “tolerance” line of garbage. The sad thing is that we have so many self-loathing, feminized, liberalized, male masses within our country/countries that you are being assisted in your jihad efforts under the guise of “multiculturalism” and “diversity”. What you don’t understand is that there are millions of us around the world who are on to your game, and the day will come when we will be tolerant. Try to riot in the streets of Houston, TX as you did in France and are doing now and see what happens. Yes, the day is fast approaching when we will not stand to see our freedoms eroded for the sake of those who wish to convert or kill us. You see, you “moderates” are the aggitators steadily worming your way into free societies, doing the intellectualizing and rationalizing, spewing your propoganda, patiently waiting for your violent, radical “troops” to light the powder keg and set plan of domination, or should I say “Submission = Islam” off.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand that at the present moment you’re pretty content with Western conveniences like nice homes, good jobs, civilized people, modern grocery stores, etc. However, you inevitably believe that this mistake called western civilization is a fleeting period in history whereby the current jihad will eventually bring about the ultimate vision of your beloved prophet – one big happy Islamic world. Well, millions of us see the plan for what it is. Oh, and just so you know, you you only serve to galvanize our resolve when you act like complete lunatics as with the latest Denmark cartoon incident.
Keep showing your true colors. We’re taking notes and buying ammunition.
Vigilant Texan
Comment by Charles — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 11:23 am UTC
Maybe, I should just stop reading the news
All I can say is – These two short news stories are just glorious.
Last night, before I went to sleep, I cruised the web looking for some information on the on-going reaction to the infamous fifteen(original Danish dozen, and the Muslim originated added apparition of three) cartoons. And lo and behold to my surprise, look what I found:
http://egyptiansandmonkey.blogspot.com/2006/02/boycott-egypt.html
These were published in a Muslim country back in October. Funny thing though, I didn’t hear of any riots about it back then – maybe I just missed it. Nor did I hear of anything like the following discovery this today during my morning coffee – I’m not sure if it’s the news or the coffee that seems to be the problem on my end right now. This is what I read:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/09/ncart09.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/02/09/ixnewstop.html
Anyway, It looks like jolly old England is about to have their fare share of demonstrations. I can’t say that I’m envious, especially with the recent examples of the Muslim version of a peaceful demonstration, which we’ve seen in the news. And this time it looks like they are going to invite a large number of Muslims do participate. The estimated count will be about 100,000 protestors. Wow !
Comment by Chazyk — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 12:38 pm UTC
بهتر است از توهین به مقدسات هر دین Ùˆ مذهبی پرهیز شود تا همه در ØµÙ„Ø Ùˆ آرامش زندگی کنند. اگر کاریکاتوریست راه ØÙ„ خوبی برای زندگی اعراب Ùˆ مسلمانان دارد ارائه کند نه اینکه مثلاٌ یک تروریست را به عمل تروریستی تشویق کند.
Comment by Dr. Ahmad Bagherithani — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 1:49 pm UTC
some muslims,but not all, are terrorist. Islam never encourages the Muslims to terror.you should notice that, according to third law of Newton,”For any action, there is a reaction equal and opposite to it”.
cinserely yours
Comment by Dr. Ahmad Bagherithani — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 1:59 pm UTC
Ahmad:
Be a brave man–tell us EXACTLY what you mean by the “equal and opposite” quotation.
Comment by Crusader — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 2:31 pm UTC
CHARLES
You are mistaken about our Living standards. I think what we can afford for our comfort you guyz from western world cannot. For your information, we have modern grocery stores, huge houses (which you even cannot think of living in ), very decsent people who give respect to all the religions and yes very good jobs (that is why lots of westerners are also working in our countries).
Comment by Komi — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 2:37 pm UTC
Noted.
Tell me what do these verses from the Qur’an etc. happen to mean to Muslims and how do you think the West interprets them in light of recent Muslim threats of violence ?
Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)
I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)
The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. (Koran 98:1-8)
A Muslim may not be killed if he kills a non-Muslim (Al Bukhari Vol 9:50)
Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth [Islam], until they are subdued. (Surat At-Taubah 9:29)
Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.
Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)”
Yes, Newton was correct. What exactly, do you think the West’s reaction might be after the Muslims have finished with their action ?
Sincerely yours,
A concerned world
Comment by Chazyk — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 2:56 pm UTC
Komi:
Uh, no. “Lots of westerners” work in your countries because your educational system doesn’t turn out enough qualified individuals with the knowledge of science and technology that is required to keep the systems in your country operational.
Comment by Crusader — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 3:03 pm UTC
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Sincerely,
Comment by Chazyk — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 3:41 pm UTC
Someone earlier asked what foods and products were Danish. Here’s a list that Michelle Malkin made.
Food:
Arla milk, cheese etc.
Danish crown (meat)
Lurmaerket Butter
Danish Bacon
Thor Fish
Danisco Food
Candy:
Toms (chocolate)
LAgermann
Galle & Jessen
Beverages:
Tuborg Beer
Carlsberg Beer
Aalborg Aquavit (snaps)
Medicine:
Novo
Cigarettes:
Prince
Clothings:
H2O
Hummel
Per Reumert
Shoes:
Ecco
Jaco
Danish Design:
Royal Copenhagen
Georg Jensen
Stelton
PH-lamps
Lego (toys)
Brio (toys)
Raadvad (knives etc.)
Trip Trap
HTH- kitchen
Morsoe (Fireplaces)
Royal Danish Porcelain
B & G Porcelain
Vesta (Windmills)
B & O radioes/televisions etc.
Other:
Watco Danish Furniture Oil
The list shows where my priorities have been. Out of that entire line of Danish goods, the only two I had heard of before are Tuborg and Carlsborg Beer.
Comment by Chad Evans — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 4:07 pm UTC
Komi:
Sorry, I have lived in an arabic country (Saudi)and you’re way off the mark! Most don’t have a level of comfort even close to that of the western world. A very few do, at the expence of all the rest!
Sure you have modern grocery stores, unless you take a few steps outside the cities, in which case you have squat – and this is Saudi Arabia, mind you… the richest country in the region.
Nope – no tolerance for other religions whatsoever… NONE AT ALL!!! I had a cross in a necklace confiscated on my first visit. What would be the reaction if we confiscated every koran brought into Denamrk?!?!
Good jobs? Sure, untill the grotesque society becomes too much for you! Most expatriates only last a few years. The jobs are well paid (in Saudi at least) in order to attract anyone, since the saudis are (or were in the 80′s at least) completely unable to handle the infrastructure o your countries. In fact, danes have been the main force in establishing farms all over Saudi – maybe you should boycot yourselves?
Chad Evans:
)
What? Never heard of LEGO? Novo? you’re obviously not a diabetic… ;o)
But seriously, if you buy the beer we’ll be perfectly happy!
Action – reaction:
Well, let’s see…
-The west saves Kuwait from an invasion by a hostile muslim neighbour – Kuwait boycots Denmark because of a caricature in a newspaper. Great reaction!
-The west topples an oppresive, secular tyrant (Iraq) to secure the population freedom and democracy – muslims talk of aggresion against Islam and starts a wave of suicide bombs mainly targeting other civilian muslims. Great reaction!
-My country throws tons of money your way in an effort to make the palestinian society function – after shoveling money into their own pockets, the palestinians burn our flag and threaten with murder because of a caricature in a newspaper. Great reaction!
-My country takes in 200.000 refugee muslims (so far) to save them from persecution, torture and death in their native countries – The same refugees travel back to their homelands to stir up a craze because of a caricature in a newspaper. Great reaction!
I’m speechless…!
Comment by Adam — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 5:00 pm UTC
My mistake. Of course I have heard of Lego. I used to have a huge assortment of Legos growing up and gave some to my nephew this past Christmas.
Oh, and Adam, the entire West as a whole gave a massive amount of money to the Palestinian Authority to build infrastructure and improve the lives of all Palestinians. What did Arafat do with it? He put it into French banks and now his wife is fighting for control over the trying to increase the amount she gets paid per month. That’s not all though. Instead of spending the money given to help Palestinians on the Palestinian themselves, Arafat instead told the world he wanted peace and then came back to Palestine and called for jihad. There are several videos of him saying these things and calling for ‘martyrs’ even directly after signing the Oslo Peace Accord.
What have the Palestinians done for themselves now? They voted in a terrorist group in which the West refuses to negotiate with. I can’t help but wonder if the Palestinians don’t want to be helped, seriously. It’s not as if the West hasn’t tried and even negotiated settlements between Israel and Palestine. The United States is hated in Palestine, yet it was the U.S. who applied pressure to Israel to withdraw from Gaza. No good will or anything, but our flag is burned along side the Danish flag, not that I mind the American flag next to the flag of Denmark mind you.
Comment by Chad Evans — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 5:04 pm UTC
Oh, the danes are certainly not the only ones sending support to Palestine (and several other muslim countries) – I only specified my country because of the current situation…
I guess the americans are more used to and hardened at seeing their flag burned, but I still can’t imagine that any U.S. citizen can see such an act without feeling anger and/or sadness!
I’m just perplexed at the need to blame someone else for the faults of ones own society or that of a third party. I mean, what the heck does the abuse of Israel (sure, I’ll admit that the israelies aren’t saints either) have to do with the west? What did the skyjackings of the 70′s do other than make the west hostile towards the arab countries? In my entire lifetime I’ve never seen the arab countries do anything but shoot themselves in the foot!
What’s even worse is that all the things they keep accusing us of, they are themselves guilty of in abundance. An example: Indonesia is the largest muslim country in the world and have been condeming the actions of the west in the middl east, yet they had no qualm whatsoever about invading East Timor to seize their newly discovered oil fields!!!
Comment by Adam — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 5:30 pm UTC
Charles,
Many people, including myself, have been begging people to open their eyes and LOOK at what is going on.
It’s very hard to sometimes tell the difference between a sincerely decent person and a con-artist; especially if you turn off your senses and only listen to what is being said. It might be an old cliche but its a good one,
LUKECH
Comment by lukech — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 5:33 pm UTC
Well, I just knew it was gonna happen. The West and it’s ability to go with the flow. There sure are a lot of creative people in the west, and when I heard about that contest offered to draw potentially offensive material, I knew it was going to be etched in stone. Yep, That obsession with Freedom of expression, coupled with the artistic orientation of the Western mind and a challenge issued by those that have really set themselves up to be the poster children of *cluelessness*.
Here is the latest in freedom of creativity – Loosen your humor belts, and for the sake of your monitors, mouses, and keyboards, put down any beverage you may have in your hands. If the reader(or observer) is overly sensitive, easily offended or of a particular religion that doesn’t quite understand parody and/or satire, please DO NOT CLICK ON THESE LINKS: (oh well, i tried to warn them).
http://retecool.com/comments.php?id=13539_0_1_0_C
http://drawmohammed.com/
Disclaimer – this reporter and this website do not claim responsibility for the content of the material contained on the other side of the afore supplied links.
Don’t bomb us – we didn’t do it.
Comment by Chazyk — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 5:39 pm UTC
Adam,
I have to admit you kind of just get used to seeing your flag burned. It doesn’t sadden me or frustrate me any more really. Ok, I guess it does sadden me a bit but it’s not do to my ancestors who fought for the right to hoist the flag, but for the people that are doing the burning. I mean most of the flag burning goes on in Palestine and Pakistan, or seemingly, and the U.S. has done so much to try to help both nations over the past few decades it kind of shows you what throwing money at a problem does; nothing.
What’s further perplexing to me, other than the double standards, is that too many people are quick to forget when NATO went in and stopped the genocide on Muslims in the Balkans. They forget a massive coalition of nations removed the Iraqi military from unplugging incubators in Kuwait. They forget the huge amounts of cash thrown at Muslim nations in order to try to help them out. And by ‘they’ I certainly do not mean all.
What does all of this really teach you? A problem today can be cured tomorrow, but that cure will be next week’s problem.
Comment by Chad Evans — Thursday, February 9, 2006 @ 6:45 pm UTC
CRUSADER I feel sorry for you…all I could do was warn you politely
LAKUM DE’EN AKUM,
WALI’UD’DIN
Comment by sarah — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 3:14 am UTC
CRUSADER I Rreally feel sorry for you…I hoped to make you see the point, but I could’nt, it is Allah’s will, all I could do was warn you politely
LAKUM DE’EN AKUM,
WALI’UD’DIN
Comment by sarah — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 3:16 am UTC
sarah , you’re never getting the last word in here. not anymore. especially when not bringing anything new or relevant to the table. There is a saying, “he who fights the longest wins.” That wont be you or people that believe they have the right to impose their beliefs on others anymore. Tried to find info on where to buy non arab gas in Canada. It seems that only SUNOCO and maybe OLCO stations are a safe bet. Although I’m not entirely sure about OLCO as I saw a brief caption on one site offering a deal from a citibank card for a couple of cents off per litre. Will have to look that up some more since I do know that CITIBANK is directly owned by the BIN LADEN family. BUY DANISH SUPPORT FREE SPEECH LUKECH
Comment by lukech — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 9:10 am UTC
Sarah:
Shove your “warning” up your azz–you have NOTHING to warn me of nor any ability to act upon your destructive and violent impulses. This “kafir” will never be your dhimmi.
Comment by Crusader — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 10:00 am UTC
I wanna tell all of you that God and his Prophets ABOVE of all your ” Break international law ”
No one ask USA and UK to liberate Arab and muslim countries.. and if you ask the muslims to not go to the european countries if they dont accept the freedom speech,, so I ask you and USA and UK and other western countries to go out of arab and muslim countries and dont impose the arab countries in strength to control middle east and muslims with lends and dont look for the middle east oil, and I think only the silly people who dont know why USA and UK and western countries help in middle east! dont be silly and say you come here to help us.. no one need you to help him here.. no one will die if you will not come here.. and no one need to let you learn him the modern or how to act with people,but you come to arab and muslim countries for oil and to gain money,if you gain more money in your country you will never come here as the arab do when they go to your country , if all muslims back to the Qur`an no one will need you all.. but unfortunately our government look for money to themselves only.. The Holy Qur`an have everything the person need in the life.. see most of the western scientists, you will find it in the Holy Qur`an..
do you think the USA and UK attack Iraq and Iraqian people ( women and kids ) to give them the freedom after saddam hussien??? do you know where is the Iraqaian oil going now? I will tell you.. to Israel.
You talking about freedom speech.. Freedom speech telling you to insult people in talking as ( Crusader ) did with ( sarahkhattak) ?? I pride when I call everyone brother and sister.
You who want to impose yourself in muslim people with your thoughts and believes under freedom speech.
I would like to tell you that insult the people its more than burning embassies or flags, you think that burning embassies and flags more insulting than insulting people?
you condemned when the arab and muslim people burning your symbol and you dont want to arab and muslim people to condemn when you say bad about theirs religion symbol?? you have a way to explain your believes and they have theirs way, so dont condemn
you really silly, if you dont have any jealousy of your religion and Prophet, we have it and we defense our religion and Prophet..
We are anti this ways ( burning embassies and flags ) but its comes from the people sentiment and ther discontent of muslim countries coz they didnt do anything.
and why it comes late?!.. well, because most of people here know about it so late, and they dont read dane postens, and it starts with few people then after all muslims know about it they all objection it..
and you see Hamas and Hezb Allah are terrorists because they killing israelian people.. and see Israel keeping themselves when they killing palestenians people ( kids and women ) and destroying homes!!
Hamas and Hezb Allah never attack USA or any western countries.. they defending them lands.. and USA and UK helping Israel in killing people and they never give any condemnation when Israel kill a child! and they keep giving Israel the forbidden weapons to kill people ( they ” USA and UK ” whom calling for peace and freedom ) and USA used the forbidden weapons in Iraq too in Fallogah city.
as a muslim am i, i`m not anti peace or freedom, because Islam never ask to kill guiltless people, and Islam always ask for peace, Not because weak NO, and I think everyone know what Islam position in the past and I think they also know how the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) start his holy message.
I thought the western people are educated.. but after I read what most of people said here I found myself wrong, because before you say your opinion you must read much and more and from all the sides about the one you wanna say about before you say anything.
Islam always calling for freedom even in speech, but never asked to insult others in any way even in jokes, and islam ask people to respect themselves.. but unfortunately there is alot of muslims dont work with what islam asking for, and islam gives freedom in religions ( You Have Your Religion And I Have Mine ) that what God asked his Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and Muslims in the holy Qur`an to do with other religions.
You said the western countries allowed to let muslims to build a mosques, We are so thankful for western countries, But all muslims countries ( except Saudia Arabia ) allowed to let the christians to build a church.. and in my country there is a churchs everywhere and in all the cities,, I live in small city. and there is like 7 churchs in my city
and there is a church front a mosque, and also my neighbors are christians and I have alot of christian friends, so we dont have religions and people, we only dont accept when someone insult our religion and prophets..
all the muslim people and countries have freedom in religions.. and if you found there is not in saudia I dont care of them.. they have thier opinion in this.. but that not means they dont respect other religions, because there is alot of christians living and working in saudia and no one do badly with them..
Islam is guiltless from whom beheaded people or killing quiltless people.,, everyone must know this point, and I`m sure there is alot know it.. and never judge in islam from few stupid people do around the world by name of islam. who do this stupid things by islam name are not muslim.. not only me who saying that no.. all the really muslims saying that too.
if they really didnt mean to insult islam or islam Prophet as they said, they wouldnt publishing this cartoons, does it?
Chazyk:
When you wanna read the Holy Qur`an you must know the right meaning of every ( SURA ) ,, every sura in the Holy Qur`an have time and story.. and when the God said in his Holy Qur`an to kill every idolaters wherever you find them.. this sura talked about the agreement between the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and the idolaters.. and the God asked his Prophet to kill any idolaters if they will revoke the agreement wherever he find them.. So, when you wanna read the Holy Qur`an don’t just read the words and explain as you wish.. search for the right meaning and when the sura sent to the Prophet and why!
Best Regards.
Comment by Yahia — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 11:24 am UTC
Hah. All in context.
Previously:
I had no idea the Jews were behind it all the entire time. I had no clue Israel could manipulate two sovereign nations into invading an entire nation to get oil for them.
I suppose attacks on American diplomats are not an attack on the United States, at least to this uneducated Westerner.
I have friends who took part in the battle of Fallujah, so that’s interesting that you brought that up. I’m not sure what you were told, Yahia, but there were no banned weapons used. White Phosphorus is used to illuminate the sky at night, not as a chemical weapon.
Signed,
Some dumb American hick who bathes in oil.
Comment by Chad Evans — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 12:30 pm UTC
YAHIA.. who do you think you’re kiddin. I work with several hundred people in Canada that originally come from upwards of 20 different countries and many are muslim. There most definetly is a divide amongst your own people because some of them are anti american and some supported the removal of Saddam when it happened. What a strange coincidence it is that all the muslims I know personally that were against the invasion were individuals that spit on our values for years and the ones in support of Saddams topling had nothing but horror stories of their homeland. Some of the Iraqis I’ve come to know are incredible decent people. But their is a large number of the people I’ve met that the first thing they do when they don’t get their way is turn to violence. The main reason for these kinds of violent reactions IS an obvious sign of a lack of respect for anyone that does not share the same beliefs. If burning down buildings over the depiction of how someone feels about a group of people based on their own actions,is not a sign of disrespect or intolerance, what the hell is. LUKECH
Comment by lukech — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 12:55 pm UTC
Yahia:
The political portion of your message was flawed beyond correction. The religious part of it is a non-starter with me–I don’t care at all who Mulsims believe Muhammad to be, he was just a mere mortal to me, and as a result, I owe neither him nor Muslims any “respect” when it comes to the mention of his name.
Free speech includes the right to be critical of religions and religious icons.
Comment by Crusader — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 1:37 pm UTC
CRUSADER:
Please do not reply me on my comment again because I cannot even think of talking to someone who is illetrate and do not know how to talk about my Prophrt (PBUH). You have no right to talk about Prophet (PBUH) like that and I think you should apologise to all the muslims on this site.
“well I can see what your educational system teaches you.”
You should respect everyones religion like we do.
Comment by Komi — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 2:57 pm UTC
Komi:
Let me make myself clear, for its obvious you don’t understand this yet: Screw Muhammad. He’s not MY “prophet”, and as a result, I owe him (and you, and other Muslims) absolutely NOTHING.
Free speech includes the right to make critical comments of religions (even the crappy ones, like Islam) and religious icons (like your make-believe “prophet”).
Further, its laughable that you and other Muslims pretend to “respect all religions” when I could show you dozens of instances where you and your ilk are critical of Christianity and Judaism. You have that right–just like non-Muslims have the right to be critical of the death-cult that is Islam.
Comment by Crusader — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 3:35 pm UTC
Muslim brothers and sisters, I agreed with fsyukri. Don’t waste your time arguing with the KAFIR. The KAFIR won’t understand and they will never want to understand. Their hearts are as hard as a stone ….. So let them be a KAFIR and forever be a KAFIR. Nauzubillah. KAFIR! KAFIR !KAFIR!
Comment by Non Arab Muslim Brother — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 5:22 pm UTC
#260:
I’m proudly a KAFIR, and I’ll never be your dhimmi. Screw you.
Comment by Crusader — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 5:27 pm UTC
Komi,
I find it absolutely pathetic that the only thing that you attempted to refute from my prior posting was the fact that Muslim immigrants enjoy the freedoms and conveniences of the western, democratic host countries in which they reside. When you fail to refute or apologize for any of the heinous acts committed by your fellow practioners of the religion of peace, you only confirm the conclusions that millions of westerners have about most muslims; that your lack of remorse or outrage is an affirmation of those acts committed.
One other thing that I want to clarify Komi, is that those of us who are Christians beleive that Jesus was God incarnate. He was not simply a prophet, a man, but God himself. He came in love to save mankind from the wretchedness of his sin by his sacrifice on the cross. I don’t believe you’ll find any stories of Jesus converting people by the sword in the New Testament. I hope someday you can experience the freedom that his grace brings.
I don’t know if you’ll find this in Muslim history books, but here it is nevertheless. What Mohammed did in approximately 600 A.D. was take the peaceful teachings of Christ in the New Testament, which had been around for half a millineum before “the prophet” was on the scene, and melded them with the sterner, eye-for-an-eye teachings of the Old Testament/The Torah. He then wrote a bastardized text which at best contains tainted truth, but without a doubt was written to ensure his absolute authority within his own time, and Muslim authority/superiority throughout ages to come. In his text, non-belivers are subject to the sword, Jesus is relagated to a prohet, Mary is no longer the Mother of God, after all, Mohammed couldn’t have that pesky Chrisianity around competing with his “new, improved absolute truth”. He couldn’t tolerate Jews. As a matter of fact, there is not much he could tolerate other than complete Muslim domination and rule.
The point is Komi, you’ve been duped. Your people have been duped for 1400 plus years. Do you think a loving God would want his people commiting suicide/homicide?? Mohammed constructed a vengeful, non-merciful Allah to serve his own purposes and to create a legacy. Komi, my how there must be no certainty or hope for heaven within Islam to commit the atrocities in the defense of the prohet that are going on right now. What kind of god is honored by beheadings, beatings, vandalism, and terrorism?? Which offends god more, the death of the innocent in vengence or a carricature??
Komi, do you find it coincidence that the tsunami killed 500,000 plus in a predominantly Muslim area? Do you find it coincidence that 100,000 plus died in the Pakistani quakes? Do you find it coincidence that a cruise ship carrying 1500+ Muslims sank last week off the coast of Egypt?
Perhaps it may be that your people’s actions are not bringing glory to, but anger…
Charles
Vigilant Texan
Comment by Charles — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 6:11 pm UTC
Yahia :
“I wanna tell all of you that God and his Prophets ABOVE of all your †Break international law —
No. Nothing is above the law – religion is a personal thing not to be confused with truth or justice or right.
“No one ask USA and UK to liberate Arab and muslim countries”
Yes, the government of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia asked for help against the invading Iraqi forces.
“so I ask you and USA and UK and other western countries to go out of arab and muslim countries and dont impose the arab countries in strength to control middle east and muslims with lends and dont look for the middle east oil”
Are you sure? ….because the economy of many muslim countries would collapse without western aid, with thousands of deaths as a consequence…
“no one will die if you will not come here”
People WERE dying… in droves!!!
“but you come to arab and muslim countries for oil and to gain money”
It would have been much, much cheaper to just buy the oil from Saddam Hussein and let the iraqi people suffer indefinately.
“see most of the western scientists, you will find it in the Holy Qur`an..”
No.
“do you think the USA and UK attack Iraq and Iraqian people ( women and kids ) to give them the freedom after saddam hussien??? do you know where is the Iraqaian oil going now? I will tell you.. to Israel.”
No. The money for the iraqi oil is going to the iraqi people ins6tead of the palaces of Saddam Hussein.
“Freedom speech telling you to insult people in talking as ( Crusader ) did with ( sarahkhattak) ?? ”
No, the freedom of speech doesn’t tell you anything – it ALLOWS you to say anything, but makes you answerable to the courts of the country where you say it.
“you think that burning embassies and flags more insulting than insulting people?”
Yes. Alot!!! But that’s okay, it’s your right. Just don’t break international treaties or threaten with violence!
“you really silly, if you dont have any jealousy of your religion and Prophet, we have it and we defense our religion and Prophet..#
That’s really not our problem… Again, stick to the international law and you can protest all you want. Just don’t expect understanding.
“We are anti this ways ( burning embassies and flags ) but its comes from the people sentiment and ther discontent of muslim countries coz they didnt do anything.”
Well, you don’t really make much of an effort of enforcing your laws…!
“and why it comes late?!.. well, because most of people here know about it so late, and they dont read dane postens, and it starts with few people then after all muslims know about it they all objection it..”
It was published in an egyptian newspaper in october.
“and you see Hamas and Hezb Allah are terrorists because they killing israelian people.. and see Israel keeping themselves when they killing palestenians people ( kids and women ) and destroying homes!!”
Don’t confuse Israel with the west – they have their share of attrocities to answer for and they recieve criticism every day in western newspapers.
“Hamas and Hezb Allah never attack USA or any western countries”
Countless times!
“and USA and UK helping Israel in killing people”
No.
“…and they never give any condemnation when Israel kill a child! ”
Countless times!
“and they keep giving Israel the forbidden weapons to kill people”
No. Israel develop their own weapons besides standard arms.
“Islam always calling for freedom even in speech, but never asked to insult others in any way even in jokes, and islam ask people to respect themselves..”
These things, as have been explained, do NOT exclude each other.
“but unfortunately there is alot of muslims dont work with what islam asking for”
Well, if that’s what you feel, why don’t you speak up?!?! If you did, situations lkike these would probably not arise!
“but that not means they dont respect other religions, because there is alot of christians living and working in saudia and no one do badly with them..”
No, they are quite definately going to be harrased if they make any outward sign of their pledge towards christianity! I’ve experienced this myself, so I’ll accept no arguement here! Saudi may not represent the muslim world, but their status is still “defender of the muslim faith” officially! If you disagree, speak out!!!
“Islam is guiltless from whom beheaded people or killing quiltless people.,, everyone must know this point, and I`m sure there is alot know it.. and never judge in islam from few stupid people do around the world by name of islam. who do this stupid things by islam name are not muslim.. not only me who saying that no.. all the really muslims saying that too.”
Why the heck don’t you protest then?!?!
“if they really didnt mean to insult islam or islam Prophet as they said, they wouldnt publishing this cartoons, does it?”
Yes, because your silence tells the west that you agree with the violent actions of the few. The cartoons show how the west see Islam – this should provoke shame rather than anger! If you disagree, stand up and show that this is not the true face of Islam! The cartoons were not meant to insult but to provoke you to action long overdue!
Komi:
“You have no right to talk about Prophet (PBUH) like that”
He has every right as do you to talk back!
“You should respect everyones religion like we do.”
You don’t, and this debate shows it – my “religion” is science and human rights.
Non Arab Muslim Brother:
I’m not sure if you’re serious, but in case you are, you’re certainly NOT doing yourself and the rest of Islam any favour with such racist comments! If you’re just an idiot trying to stir up anger, screw you!
Comment by Adam — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 6:46 pm UTC
Charles:
Excuse me, but you’re every bit as sick as every other religious devotee posting on this topic, in my opinion!
Your egocentric views are just as bad as those of any muslim here… Why did God kill muslims? Well, please tell me why God chose to kill several million christians with the plague 600 years ago? Why did God allow his subjects to kill millions during the first and second world war?
Nope, the sad fact is you’ve ALL been duped for as long as religion has existed, and as long as religion is a part of our world we’ll have violence and intolerance! The sooner you realize that the universe just “is”, and the basic codex of a civilized world is “live and let live”, the better we’ll all be off!
As things are right now, my sentiments certainly lean towards christianity, but I still think we’d be better off with no religion at all!!!
Comment by Adam — Friday, February 10, 2006 @ 6:58 pm UTC
Infidels always find ways to justify their ideas.I just wait for the time when Islam stands alone against all at the point of no return.
..and I stand for Islam.That’s the real Jihad!
Comment by jean pierre — Saturday, February 11, 2006 @ 3:54 am UTC
jean pierre:
Let’s just hope it doens’t come to that… After all, the U.S. alone have more and better weapons than the entire muslim world together! Anyway, as have been pointed out by many of your fellow muslims, you represent only a fraction of your faith, so the entire scenario is quite unlikely…
Comment by Adam — Saturday, February 11, 2006 @ 5:55 am UTC
Jean Pierre,
It appears that you’ve shown yourself for who you are – a piece of human waste that condones any type of violence for the sake of jihad. You’re probably nervous with anticipation for Iran to finish their first nuke and sail it over to Israel. Tell me, why are you people bent on self destruction?? Do you want World War III on your hands? Because you know the U.S., Israel, England, and its allies will turn the middle east into glass if you leave us no option. The remaining Muslims within our borders will be put into internment camps. Will that bring glory to Allah?? Is that what you want??
Well look, happy Jihading to you and members of the death cult called Islam. Much luck on getting to the “point of no return”. You’re hopeless.
Charles
Vigilant Texan
Comment by Charles — Saturday, February 11, 2006 @ 8:10 am UTC
Like many others in here and around the world in support of jylland posten, and free speech, I have been looking for products to buy in their support.
I didn’t have much luck that way; so I figured I’d go the other route and look for products that were being listed as banned by them. It’s much easier when you know some of the brand names and can easily identify them when you walk into a store. Here is the first list I’ve found.
a) Butter/Margarine/Cheese
> Brand: Lurpak,Kerrygold, President,Emborg,Laughing Cow,Boursin
> MD,Danland,M.Babybel,Port Salut,Kin,Cowhead Yoghurt,Kool Yoghurt
>
> b) Ice-Cream
> Brand: Movepick
>
> c) Chocolates
> Swiss Deli, Delfi, Ferrero Rocher, Kinder, Tronky, Van Houten,
> Andes, Toblerone, Ritter S, Garfield, Droste, Toffifee, After 8,
> Lindt, Riva, Marci, Harrington
>
> d) Milk Powder
> S26, Frisosoy, Nursoy, Olac, HN25, Isormil, Frisogrow, Eufragrow,
> Frisomel, Milkmaid Calcium, Enfapro, Enfalac, Nan 1, Nan HA,
> Nan 2 Bifidus, Promil, Neslac Bifidus, Mamex, Mamil,
> Similac Follow On, Similac Infant, Frisolac, Protimex, Dumex Mama
> Plus, Kanny, Formance, Mama Sustagen, Sustagen, Frisocream
>
> e) Biscuits, Cookies
> Riberhus, Oxford, Royal Danish, Walkers, Mc Vitie’s Loacker,
> Forever Friends, Carr’s, Mr Day, Tiffany, Hdlema, Deluxe Choc
> Chips Cookies 454g
>
> f) Canned Meat
> Brand: Libby’s
>
> g) Packaged Milk
> Brand: Dutch Lady Sterilised Milk
>
> h) Bread Spread
> Crumpy Duo,Stute Hazelout Chocolate Spread
>
> i) Condiments
>
> Heinz weigh watcher, Heinz light mayonannise, Heinz salad Cream,
> Nestle Cream 170g
>
> j) Soups
> Erin Hot Cup-Cream of Chicken
> Erin Packet Soups-assorted
> Knorr Soups of the World
>
> k) Beverage
> Ovaltine Malted Milk 400g
>
> l) Pizza
> Dr Detker
>
> m) Others
> Bovril
This was a list of banned european products for singapore.Let’s start using their own stupidity and racist views against them. Denounce violence in the name of faith.
in canada Sunoco and Olco stations are the only safe stations for non-arab oil I’ve found so far. To find a list of stations use the yellow pages directory to check (not all but good list) for locations near you. tried on the web was futile even at their own website to get good comprehensive coverage.
Buy Danish Support Free speech.
LUKECH
Comment by lukech — Saturday, February 11, 2006 @ 11:01 am UTC
ALSO —–
TO support free speech and sign a petiton with currently over 29000 signatures on it check out this great link provided by CHAZYK earlier
also from CHAZYK, to send support directly to Jylland Posten click here
maybe every 40 or 50 points we could reprint these awesome links so new people coming can find them easily and show their support.
thanks to all the people helping get information out there so we can show we don’t agree with this kind of violence in the name of any god or religion.
LUKECH
Comment by lukech — Saturday, February 11, 2006 @ 11:20 am UTC
dont know why the links didnt show up but to click on the petition —————- POINT 223
posten support ———- POINT 196
Comment by lukech — Saturday, February 11, 2006 @ 11:23 am UTC
ROD;
your not the only one that remembers those ignorant actions by some truly ignorant people. Here is a brief report on that for people interested in the destruction of those buddhist images.
Pak seals Afghan border
Taliban expel BBC scribe
Islamabad, March 14
Two days after Pakistan criticised the Taliban militia for destroying the 2000-year-old Bamiyan Buddha statues, the authorities yesterday sealed a border outpost with Afghanistan following clashes between border guards of the two countries.
Officials here said the border outpost at Torkham on the Pakistan side of the border in the North-Western Frontier Province (NWFP) was sealed after Taliban militia attempted to kidnap two Pakistan border guards.
The skirmishes between the two border guards followed attempts by Taliban militia to hoist its flag on the hills in the Pakistan territory. The border was closed down immediately after the incident.
They said Thorkham checkpost had been closed for the past few weeks as hundreds of refugees were pouring in due to severe drought and civil war in Afghanistan. But Pakistan allowed only travellers with official documents.
Kabul: The ruling Taliban expelled the British Broadcasting Corporation from Afghanistan on Wednesday for transmitting criticism of the group’s destruction of all ancient statues, including two large Buddhas in Bamiyan.
While much of the country’s pre-Islamic heritage has been destroyed, Taliban officials continued to offer conflicting versions of the fate of the giant Buddhas, Afghanistan’s most famous archaeological treasure.
A Pakistan-based Afghan news service quoted Information Minister Qudratullah Jamal as saying no trace of the Buddhas remained, while Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil told reporters in Kabul the demolition continued.
But shortly afterwards Muttawakil told a news conference in the capital that work was continuing on Wednesday to eradicate the Buddhas, which towered 53 metres (175 ft) and 38 metres (120 ft) and were hewn into a cliff about 1,500 years ago.
The Taliban, which has vowed to eliminate all Afghanistan’s historic statues on the grounds they are heathen idols, were angered by an interview with a US professor broadcast on Tuesday evening by the BBC.
After the broadcast which described the destruction as barbaric, the Taliban issued an order on Wednesday for the BBC to close its Kabul office and withdraw its correspondent, Kate Clark, within 24 hours. Clark was packing and planned to leave for Islamabad on Thursday morning. PTI, Reuters
source: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2001/20010315/world.htm
Thursday, March 15, 2001,
Chandigarh, India
the tribune online edition
Comment by lukech — Saturday, February 11, 2006 @ 11:45 am UTC
Jean Pierre:
Mindsets such as yours will eventually lead to the destruction of Islam, as well as the countries that allow it to go on as a source of violence.
Comment by Crusader — Saturday, February 11, 2006 @ 1:24 pm UTC
American style democracy is defined as: The world regimes should be followers of USA and pay very very much for their existing. If they oppose to US recommendations,they should get out and replaced with a US-supported regime for financial and political reasons.USA government only wants his benefits and not USA nation benefits. You can see that US government helped the growing of Saddam Hossein and Ben Laden for political reasone,but when they opposed USA recommendations,They listed as terrorists and get attacked. Third world countries are controled by USA & Uk invisibily.their politics is for money and just money and no other thing.Who under pressure from all aspects are the nations not governments.
Comment by Dr. Ahmad Bagherithani — Sunday, February 12, 2006 @ 4:15 am UTC
why war ocured between IRAN and IRAQ and lasted for 8 years.Becaus USA companies need to sell their old war products or want to test their new weapons.thousands of peaople die at wars for this reason.Is this a democracy?
Comment by Dr. Ahmad Bagherithani — Sunday, February 12, 2006 @ 4:26 am UTC
Dr Ahmad Bagherithani,
Perhaps you could explain how Venezuela is controlled by the USA and UK? Or Zimbabwe? Or Iran? Or why America lets the current regimes in France, Germany, Russia, China, North Korea etc survive if it’s policy is as you suggest?
Or how deliberately flying planes into buildings isn’t terrorism?
I’d be interestd to hear the explanations.
Comment by Paul Watson — Sunday, February 12, 2006 @ 4:46 am UTC
Dr. Ahmad Bagherithani:
“The world regimes should be followers of USA and pay very very much for their existing. If they oppose to US recommendations,they should get out and replaced with a US-supported regime for financial and political reasons”
There is nothing new or specifically american about supporting regimes that have the same agenda as your own. Nothing wrong with that – it’s like you supporting your friends football team instead of the other team.
“You can see that US government helped the growing of Saddam Hossein and Ben Laden for political reasone”
Of course! At the time it was the prudent thing to do, since the major threat to world peace back then was the possible threat from the Warsaw pact countries (USSR). Supporting local resistance to your enemy is one of several ways of gaining the upper hand in a conflict. Thankfully, the west ended up on top, and the former Warsaw pact countries have (somewhat) turned to a more modern democracy and a place in the civilized world. Unfortunately, the recievers of western support during the cold war which you have mentioned have turned out to become threats to world peace in their own right, and our task now is to neutrlize these smaller adversaries and secure peace and stability in the affected regions. Think of how nice a place Iraq would be to live in now if they didn’t have to deal with the suicide bombs and sabotaging of a group of disturbed fanatics…! The western military would have been withdrawn long ago and every citizen would be able to walk the streets without fearing for their lives. Muslim radicals (and moderates too, through their silent acceptance) are keeping this from happening!
“Third world countries are controled by USA & Uk invisibily.their politics is for money and just money and no other thing”
Oh, sure… that´s why we throw billions your way in an effort to secure peace and stability. Seriously, listen to yourself, will you?! If money was the only factor, Saddam Hussein would still be keeping the Iraqi, the Kuwaitee and the Saudi people in an iron grip, selling cheap oil to the west!!! Get over your insistent paranoia and help us in our efforts to create a peaceful world with room for everyone!
Comment by Adam — Sunday, February 12, 2006 @ 5:20 am UTC
“Why war ocured between IRAN and IRAQ and lasted for 8 years.Becaus USA companies need to sell their old war products or want to test their new weapons.thousands of peaople die at wars for this reason.Is this a democracy?”
Get a grip…! Please explain how we should have been able to persuade two muslim regimes, both of which had a strained relationship to the west at the very least, to slug it out against each other for 8 years?!?! Saddam Hussein was a thug, plain and simple. He wanted to conquer his neighbouring countries to make himself stronger and richer, just like he tried to during the first gulf war. The west hesitated to do anything because, at the time, Iran was seen as one of the greatest threats to the free world, a place it has held on to tenaciously and is now on it’s way to strengthening even more! Saddam did everyone a favour by keeping himself AND Iran worn down for so long, so that we could worry about keeping the Warsaw pact countries at bay.
Comment by Adam — Sunday, February 12, 2006 @ 5:31 am UTC
I respect Muslims, rather the ones that are not planning to kill me. But I respect free speech also, and not letting free speech be controlled by terror. I believe the Danish people should be proud to freely speak their minds, and I hope they do not let the terrorists take that right from them. Nobody is above any other person, and that includes Muslims, so they need to accept the world will insult them just as freely as they will respect them. I made a game out of the Danish cartoon in response to this. Although the game starts with the introduction from their Prophet, it continues on into a shooting gallery for the ones who gave their Prophet a bad image, such as Osama Bin Laden. Enjoy the game, it is free for any to play, you can find it at my website, http://www.obber.com.
Comment by Curtis Stone — Sunday, February 12, 2006 @ 7:05 am UTC
here is another link people might be interested in for signing of a petitions that will be sent to
Target: PM Rasmussen and the Arab League
Category: Civil & Human Rights
there are only 1159 signatures right now so lets put this link out there so people can show muslims leaders directly that we do support DENMARK and the right to free speech. thank you.
Comment by lukech — Sunday, February 12, 2006 @ 12:20 pm UTC
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/freespeech1
link for previous post in support of free speech
Comment by lukech — Sunday, February 12, 2006 @ 12:24 pm UTC
Acutally, Adam and Dr. Bagherithani, the United States, England, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan (all four funded the mujihadeen during the Afghan-Soviet War) never funeded Osama Bin Laden.
OBL was in Egypt during half the conflict recruiting and signing up fighters, but he was not connected to the larger effort organized by Pakistani intelligence (ISI). Later on Bin Laden moved to Pakistan and set up a training camp, called ‘The Lions’ Den’ that operated out of the control and funding of the U.S. The United States did make specific payments during the war bypassing the ISI gatekeepers, but those were to the group more commonly known as the Northern Alliance. The arms in that war were purchased primarily from China, Brazil and other nations so that the Soviet Union could never pinpoint they came from the United States. Net results, the U.S. only lost money and no U.S. company made a dime, but nice try Dr. Bagherithani. I’d be more than happy to discuss this more in depth with you, but I don’t know if I should start at the beginning or not.
How does a chimpanzee posing as a president manipulate the world’s governments? Ok, wrong crowd with that one. Shows every week. Heh.
Anyhow, Dr. Bagherithani what exactly are you a doctor of? I assume you at least have your doctoral, and I applaud your decision to achieve a high level of education. I do though question what those have taught you in your pursuit towards your doctoral. Case in point:
Do you really believe this or was this just a joke, like the chimp one I threw out there, designed to get people to laugh? Out of curiosity, where do you live and where did you get your doctoral degree? It may explain things very clearly, and there is an explanation needed to believe the Iran-Iraq war started because of U.S. involvement.
The Iran-Iraq War was started by Saddam Hussein, a U.S. ally at the time due to Iran’s hostility towards the U.S., after the Islamic Revolution. Saddam believed the Islamic Revolution erupting in Iran would seep accross the border into Iraq. To counter this, he started a war to keep the minds of Iraqis focused on war and hatred of Iran. Did the U.S. help arm Iraq, yes, but so too have many, many other countries prior and during this conflict.
I eagerly await your response.
Comment by Chad Evans — Sunday, February 12, 2006 @ 1:57 pm UTC
Stop printing pictures of Prophet Muhammad.
Stop printing cartoons of
Prophet Muhammad
Comment by Kainath Ahmed — Sunday, February 12, 2006 @ 4:59 pm UTC
lets just stop muhammad altogether please.
Comment by lukech — Sunday, February 12, 2006 @ 5:05 pm UTC
Proud to say that in at least one poll up here in Toronto people voted 69 % to 31 % in favor of printing the Jyllands-Posten cartoons.Although I have yet to see any of Multiculturaly integrated new organisations stand up for the most important right they themselves enjoy by actually getting involved in this arguement.
Since the stupidity of this all started, gas prices in the Gta haved dropped from a daily rate of between 96 cents to 1.02 per litre, to a daily range of 77.9 c to 82 c per litre. Trying to buy a little sympathy maybe ? an average daily drop of 20 c/litre. Just know that will only last as long as they believe they can buy more(recruit) people onto their side.
the earlier link to http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/freespeech1
disregard it unless u want to subscribe to their company
their are better, real petitions as mentioned earlier in support of free speech.
Comment by lukech — Sunday, February 12, 2006 @ 5:17 pm UTC
Adam, Crusader
Why are both of you get so angry when I mentioned kafir. Both of you said that everyone must have FREEDOM OF SPEECH , so you shouldn’t get angry with me! I can say anything that I felt right!
Comment by Non Arab Muslim Brother — Monday, February 13, 2006 @ 5:19 am UTC
All religions in the world have many things in common in relation to how mankind should live their life in this world e.g. to lieve in peace, pursue prosperity, help the poor, avoid unmarried sex, avoid stealing, uphold justice and avoid prostitution. Their differences are basically in name of Gods and the way they do ritual activities. However, believers tend to pay more attention to their differences than to things they have in common.
In my opinion, believers should work together to bring about their common objective rather than waste time, money, energy and even life to fight for their differences.
What matters in the cartoon of Mohammed in the Dannish newspaper is not the drawing itself but the motive. One can understand the principle of press freedom. However, press freedom should be carried out in a responsible manner.
There is no problem for one to criticise Islam or Mohammed or even God like what Nietsche has done. However, to ridicule is another thing. I believe we can find a better to criticise rather than to ridicule especially when it involves sensitive issues like religion values.
Journal Wahab – Indonesia
Comment by Journal Wahab — Monday, February 13, 2006 @ 5:25 am UTC
Non-Arab Muslim Brother,
No. You’re allowed to get offended by what someone says. What you’re not allowed to do is threaten them or demand that your personal beliefs are made immune from criticism and ridicule.
Free speech gives you the right to be offensive, and the right to be offended about it. It even gives you the right to protest peacefully.
And as an aetheist, I find all religions equally ridiculous examples of mind control. Doesn’t matter who the imaginary supreme being is, He’s still imaginary, and therefore open to a lot of ridicule for being a ridiculous idea.
Comment by Paul Watson — Monday, February 13, 2006 @ 5:30 am UTC
NON ARAB MUSLIM BROTHER,
” Why are both of you get so angry when I mentioned kafir. Both of you said that everyone must have FREEDOM OF SPEECH , so you shouldn’t get angry with me! I can say anything that I felt right! ”
Now your finally on the right path. Your not quite there yet though. Your allowed to get as angry as you want as long as your anger isn’t channeled into violence. None of your freedoms that are enjoyed by muslims living outside of middle eastern nations were taken away by the printing of this cartoon.
We also have the right to get angry and meet you here, or anywhere for that matter, and TELL YOU how we feel about it. We also have the right to stand up for ourselves when we are being attacked.
Just because something is distasteful, doesn’t mean it is wrong. Saying that it is wrong implies the idea that it shouldn’t be allowed. There is a gigantic difference between not agreeing with what someone else believes;
such as the cartoons depicting mohammad,
or the muslim faith and the rule of Islam.
and not allowing someone the expression of their beliefs.
Comment by lukech — Monday, February 13, 2006 @ 8:15 am UTC
Thank you, Paul Watson and lukech. I was gonna answer myself before reading any further, but then I spotted your reply – not much else to say except a tiny addition:
Non Arab Muslim Brother:
There is a slight difference between getting angry about some caricatures showing critisicm of the action of followers of a long dead person, and showing contempt to someone because of their religion or race – the latter is actually punishable by law! Not that I care enough to make something out of it, but you should be aware of that fact…
Journal Wahab:
Once again, the caricatures do not mock Muhammed, they critisize his followers for mocking him through their actions!!!
In any case, I’m an atheist and so feel no need to treat your prophet any differently than any other famous person from the past. My religion is the human rights, including freedom of speech – respect my religion!
Comment by Adam — Monday, February 13, 2006 @ 12:56 pm UTC
Non Arab Muslim Brother:
You are certainly entitled to say whatever you wish, just as us “KAFIRS” are entitled to point out that you’re clueless and that we’ll never be your dhimmis.
Comment by Crusader — Monday, February 13, 2006 @ 1:02 pm UTC
Its all business, you want our land, u want our oil. you screw our religion make it look bad.. maybe not u but ur goverments.
We know that the end will come, we believe that we will win.
The arabs did a lot of mistakes and maybe thats the onle reason they were blessed with islam. God knew they will not hold on to islam as he wants it to be. He sent pbuh mohammed to guide them and pbuh said that a day will come to his nation when they dont know there religion. and to tellyou the truth as a muslim i know that this is not the reiligion millions of people believed in. it has been distroted it has been tought by the wrong people..
La hawla wala qowata illa lel lah.
there is no power but for god..
till the day we wake up, and realize that we’ve been doing everything wrong for the past 100 years. and living on the memories of 300 hundreds. we will be oppressed we will be hated we will be blamed for everything wrong in the world.
YOu all judge our religion without knowing our religion think u know prophet mohammed slw and say he’s a pedofile or whatever u want to call him, u think ur smart, u think u can make facts against histroy will u can say and do whatever u want. but our quran that most of u havent read will not be changed and we will be there on judgment day and when prophet jesus is back he will be on our side. he was not killed he was not crusified…
I always loved people for who they are, and i always respected people no matter what they blieved in but ive never seen anyone hating other people just becasue they are muslim.. you completed dont understand islam, so please dont judge.. i wish i can guide you people to the right way. i wish ican make a difference…
just leave us alone.
we will not think about u twice..
We should all learn how to live together…
its not a big world anymore..
enjoy our oil while it lasts..
Comment by Mohammed — Monday, February 13, 2006 @ 5:36 pm UTC
and by the way, ARABS ARE SEMTIC,,, SARAH WIFE OF IBRAHIM mother of the jews, HAJAR wife oF IBRAHIM mother of the arabs..makes them cousin,,, not even makes them brothers.when ur anti semtic ur anti arab and anti jew
and judaism is not a race as well its a religion its been changed into a race..
YOUR FREEDOM ENDS WHEN UR TRESSPASS THE FREEDOM OF OTHER PEOPLE..
freedoM OF EXPRESSION? WHY CANT A PERSON DENY THE HOLOCOUST ISNT THAT FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION? OR DOES MY FREEDOM END BECASUE ITS ANTI-SEMATIC WILL PROPHET MOHAMMED IS SEMTICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
Comment by Mohammed — Monday, February 13, 2006 @ 5:47 pm UTC
Mohammed ^^^^^
“” freedoM OF EXPRESSION? WHY CANT A PERSON DENY THE HOLOCOUST ISNT THAT FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION? OR DOES MY FREEDOM END BECASUE ITS ANTI-SEMATIC WILL PROPHET MOHAMMED IS SEMTICCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC “”
No one here ever said you cant deny the holocaust. In fact thats one of the things you ignorant fools keep doing that prove freedom of speech should be for all people.
The reason we need this right is to protect ourselves from people like you that think your beliefs give you the power to corrupt the world into your own image.
I’m a catholic( not devout or a fool ) and clearly recognize the attrocities that have been committed in the name of religion throughout time.
People used to be imprisoned for claiming the earth was round instead of flat or even mentioning the word evolution in the wrong place.
It’s exactly this kind of backwards attitude, and the punishment for people of good conscience, that has gotten into trouble over and over again.
The next great push towards religion wont even be a religion at all. It will be a movement of likeminded and civilized people taking the best parts of everything we know today and building a good, centered, base or code of ethics. Ideas such as “though shalt not kill”, dont sound too bad too me.
I still have an image of jesus on my wall from a high school trip I took and try to live my life with common sense and the idea that a world where people are judged in response to the way they act is the best way to go.
I’ve never been to foolish enough to buy into everything I was told to do or taught just because it was written down in any book. I really believe in do unto others… ya know. If you aint likin it when they’re doin it to you, it’s probably not something you should be out there doing yourself. If you want to refute things like the number of people killed in the holocaust or if it happened at all, go ahead. But if your people keep burning down buildings, instead of talking, an eye for an eye isnt such a bad saying either.
We will not give up our freedom for another backward ass religion.
LUKECH
Comment by lukech — Monday, February 13, 2006 @ 10:22 pm UTC
And so you dont think Im full of B.S. heres a joke i recently heard and thought was funny.
A catholic priest and a rabbi go fishing together. They push off in the boat and the catholic priest says
“oh damn, we should have brought a young boy along to screw.”
the rabbi says ” out of what? ”
Need to have a sense of humour about everything in life and realize that pointing out our own deficincies is sometimes also a way to open honest debate about the mistakes we make ( well not personally lol).
Sometimes its not the religion thats the problem but the people involved. AND THEN AGAIN SOMETIMES ITS THE RELIGION.
LUKECH
Comment by lukech — Monday, February 13, 2006 @ 10:29 pm UTC
Like to have comments on my comment such as from crusader,charles etc.
Though you think my comment was radical, I am not.I am just a simple moslem, but when Islam is so cornered(at the point of no return) the thing that I described that would happen.You are so sure that the super power with their mighty weapon will always win( as far as I know the US once lost in Vietnam).Allah will rescue the oppressed (remember Moses).
I begin to think about the DAJJAL ( the menace that has everything ,protecting who that obeys and eliminating who that opposes that comes at the edge of time).This is maybe the super power that exists now.If it is true…the end of the world is nigh.Then it wouldn’t be the super power against Islam, but the super power against Allah Himself.
One thing ,no matter how heated our debates will become if you insult Allah sooner or later you will be doomed.If you insult Allah in Islam, it means you insult God in Christianity or Jews, because He was the One who created the universe in 6 phases and/or days …etc.
Comment by jeanpierre — Monday, February 13, 2006 @ 11:15 pm UTC
I can assure you I wouldn’t care if people want to deny the Holocaust. I won’t deny the Holocaust, but then again I like to think of myself as reasonable and a person with an IQ over a peanut. I have been told personal stories as to the camps that were found so it would be hard for me to deny my late grandfather’s words as he relayed Allied intelligence gathered from these camps after they were found. But, Mohammed, you are more than welcome to deny the Holocaust as it hardly offends me. I think it says far more about the educational system from which those who deny such an event occured than anything else. With freedom of speech and expression comes the freedom to sound like a moron. That’s the beauty, and downfall, to such freedoms.
We’ve gone over and over this too many times to count in this comment thread, but alas maybe it’s time to do so again. First off though, no one wants Arab land other than the tyrants who joined together in the organization and ideology known as Al Qaida. Trade for resources is what has brought many of the conveniences in the Arab world. If the rest of the world were to cut off all trade, there might not be much there since there isn’t one other resource readily tradeable at this moment.
What makes Islam look worse? Twelve elementary looking cartoons or the countless terrorist attacks in Islam’s name? Of course the attacks are not a part of Islam, or so we are continually told, but they are attributed to Islam nonetheless because of the lack of global outrage in the Islamic community after the repeated attacks.
No matter how many times most people that continue to comment on this thread say it, this doesn’t sink in with some people. Most, and by most I mean 99.9 percent, of people in the West don’t care what religion someone is. We only care about how people carry themselves.
And as a Catholic I find Lukech’s joke hilarious. It is our ability as humans to laugh at our own that makes life enjoyable.
Comment by Chad Evans — Monday, February 13, 2006 @ 11:34 pm UTC
Mohammed:
“Its all business, you want our land, u want our oil. you screw our religion make it look bad.. maybe not u but ur goverments.”
Get over it, man… Nobody wants your land! Yes, we want your oil and we’re willing to pay for it of course – what’s wrong with that? Nobody is screwing your religion except yourselves – that’s what this incident is all about! Our governments are elected by us because we think they make the right choices – don’t confuse your own dictatorships with our democracy!
“but ive never seen anyone hating other people just becasue they are muslim.. ”
Very few hate muslims because they are muslims. Personally, I just detest the arab/muslim culture for it’s inhumane practices (personally experienced in Saudi and through many immigrants in Denmark) but I don’t hate the individual arab/muslim. So you see, it’s not racism at all, but rather a dislike of culture.
lukech:
Agreed on all points!
jeanpierre:
“as far as I know the US once lost in Vietnam”
Technically, yes, but only because public opinion was against the war. If you look at the military capabilities NOT used and the death count from both sides, the result is obvious. As it turned out, the war made a statement that kept many small countries from jumping on the “communist” band wagon, and seen in that light, the war was a succes, if a war can ever be called that!
“Then it wouldn’t be the super power against Islam, but the super power against Allah Himself”
A void arguement, since most of us don’t believe in any god! Still, if that’s your argument, why are you making such a fuss? Isn’t your Allah capable of taking care of western insults by himself? How can you presume to do the work of Allah for him?! As I see it, that is the greatest insult and act of blasphemy, not some innocent caricature!
Chad Evans:
Agreed on all points!
Comment by Adam B — Tuesday, February 14, 2006 @ 3:50 am UTC
Im not denying the holocoust i just heard that ur not allowed to deny it in Europe or the us where freedom is.m not an arab, im originally CHECHEN, as far as im concenrend i said that i think islam has been thought by the wrong people and i know its not a religion of tyrants and trerrorits.. I wont marry an arab even though she’s muslim, but the culutre is different from my culture, lets not talk about the stuff wahabisim is doing in chechnya and how its destroying our nation casue thats a different issue, im not wit al qaidaim not a terrorist and i bet if u saw me in denmark u wont recognize me, Many muslims know ettitquate and learned to live with other people, the only people that came to denmark and europe are arabs that looked for a better life, just like the irish left to the US and the italians and the africans. can i say that all italians i nthe us are mobsters? or all colombians are drug dealers? or all irish are big fat old drunk people? I wont say that casue i dont think if theres a group of people who act someway then we consider the whole nation like that. DONT forget that the arab world is not educated, when u look at the news and see people demonstarting, its never Jordan why? casue many are educated and know hwo to deal,, ur taking exmples of lebanon that has been in war for ages, and syrai where the people can not eat, yeah we can blame the regimes in all these nations, but dont forget that there were peacefull protests in amman,jordan and other cities. around the arab world..
In islam i can judge ur or call u names, and its says the doubt u have in people without know the true intentions is not right.. islam thought us to share bread, even with non muslims, islam is a wonderful religion and has covered many aspects of our life.
When i went to the states people pass by and smile and say goodmorning, i thought that was soo kind of americans and when i asked my father he told me that in islam thats what we are SUPPOSEd to do as well. the culture how it is and islam came to change that but we are too ignorant and we cant follow islam proparly and in the end people can critize us and we have nothin to say in return..
all of you out there, as a muslim, I ask god to forgive u, i ask my fellow muslim to respect you, appreciate u and love you..My relgion never thought me to hate u, there are catholic arabs and jewish arabs and we live among them. we respect them and we lived with them for over 1400 years. and some of them are worse than muslims. but i will refuse to call them ignorat or draw prophet jesus and make fun of him nor would i make fun of the hundreds of prophets that were sent to the jews.
Comment by Mohammed — Tuesday, February 14, 2006 @ 4:13 am UTC
excuse the mistakes i was doing two things at the same time i just read it and it sucked hope u understand the main point of view
Comment by Mohammed — Tuesday, February 14, 2006 @ 4:21 am UTC
Mohammed:
I see you mentioned that you’re from Chechnia, if I understand correctly… In that case you should definately be aware that Denmark got the brunt of a Rusian pseudo-boycot because we refused to hand over mr. Zakaev before the russians could produce decisive proof of his participation in terrorist activities, in short: The russians had not learned that you’re innocent until proven guilty and we payed for it! The same thing is happening now, only with the roles somewhat reversed. Someone else is demanding, on pain of economical retribution, that Denmark break it’s own and the international laws in order to satisfy some private agenda, and since we cannot and will not do so, we face the consequences… It’s just too bad that our efforts go completely unappreciated by those we are trying to protect!
“i will refuse to call them ignorat or draw prophet jesus and make fun of him nor would i make fun of the hundreds of prophets that were sent to the jews.”
Your choice – just don’t expect the rest of us to follow your personal code of honor to the letter.
Comment by Adam B — Tuesday, February 14, 2006 @ 6:26 am UTC
Why can’t Muslim men get jobs and earn a living? Maybe because it is easier to make your women and children work for you. That leaves your day free to blame “the West” for everything that is wrong.
Please start the jihad. The sooner this is over (and trust me if bullets start flying it wont take long) the better.
Even a postage-stamp sized country like Israel has EASILY kicked-ass each time it has had too.
Trust me . . . we arent like your women. We will hit back.
Comment by quo vadis — Tuesday, February 14, 2006 @ 11:28 am UTC
“I always loved people for who they are, and i always respected people no matter what they blieved in”
So, I does that mean you’ll love me because I believe everyone should have FREEDOM of SPEECH, and that you’ll respect me for exercising my FREEDOM of SPEECH – THANK YOU !
“you completed dont understand islam, so please dont judge..”
Unfortunately, I have come to understand Islam well enough to know that the inspiration it provides some of it’s adherents is not always peaceful nor beneficial towards those who choose to not be Muslim.
“i wish i can guide you people to the right way. i wish ican make a difference…
As do these people
“just leave us alone.”
So you can force everyone else on the planet, to submit to your oppressive religion, or let you burn, destroy, kill, or threaten as you please ?
Muslims don’t want to be left alone, they want to subjugate everyone – Islam means “Submission”
“we will not think about u twice..
The World would like it if you just stopped and thought for once …
“We should all learn how to live together…”
AGREED ! Can Muslims start by allowing the rest of the world to have their opinion and the right to express it without threatening violence or an unholy jihad ?
Comment by Chazyk — Tuesday, February 14, 2006 @ 11:41 am UTC
We do understand! Many muslims wont rest until they are free to force their religion, and customs onto the rest of the world. This is evidenced by the hate crimes ( thats what it is when you physically attack people with a differing point of view or set of beliefs ) being perpertrated by muslims around the world.
The best thing about the instant communication and media coverage we have now adays is that if you get past the bias ( not all and not blatent ) of some news organizations, and judge for yourself the images and words of the followers of Islam, the conclusion is obvious. It is a faith based movement inspired to shape the world into its own image, and impose its own codes onto other civilizations.
The more ” moderate ” of the followers of Islam are still preaching the same message as the ones burning down the embassies. Just using a more politically friendly face on the message. It reminds me of the scene in the movie DRAGON when Anthony Hopkins sticks the knife in Edward Nortons ribs and holds him, telling him , shhhh itll be over soon.
Hopkins describes what is happening to him while he slowly kills Norton and tries to comfort him at the same time. This may not literally be what the “moderat muslims” are doing, but its the way it feels to me. Makes me cringe every time I see it or hear it.
Maybe its just time to take the knife outta of our chest.
lukech
Comment by lukech — Tuesday, February 14, 2006 @ 12:30 pm UTC
You can deny the Holocaust in the United States. I believe two or three of the prized guests for Iran’s Holocaust conference are from the United States. You can say pretty much anything you want here (U.S.) with the exception of talking about bombing a plane while at the airport, yelling ‘fire’ in a movie theater, talking about assassinating the president, . . . I think that covers it.
Yes, there are many offensive things said but with that freedom comes the ability to debate.
Now whether you can deny the Holocaust in Europe, I do not know. I imagine it is nation specific.
“When i went to the states people pass by and smile and say goodmorning” Really? You must have been visiting the South. I’d actually be interested where you visited, Mohammed.
Comment by Chad Evans — Tuesday, February 14, 2006 @ 12:34 pm UTC
the actions of the violent muslims do injustice to the words they use and do justice to the image we have of them.
Comment by lukech — Tuesday, February 14, 2006 @ 12:34 pm UTC
Chad,
You can indeed deny the Holocaust in Europe. I believe Germany and Austria have laws against denying the Holocaust, for fairly understandable historic reasons, but I know we don’t in the UK.
Comment by Paul Watson — Tuesday, February 14, 2006 @ 2:05 pm UTC
Thanks for the news, Paul. I thought so, but I didn’t want to speak out of line without knowing for sure.
So at present, only in Germany and Austria call for penalties to deny the Holocaust, or at least until someone informs us otherwise. No Austrian newspapers reprinted the cartoons but one German newspaper did according to my count.
That puts the calls that it’s illegal to criticize the Holocaust in Europe where they printed the cartoons to bed, sans one German newspaper. I see the historical reasons for such a firm stance, but in that one instance there is some solid ground for an argument. That argument cannot fly though for the rest of Europe with the understanding no such Holocaust laws exist outside of Germany and Austria.
Thank you again for the clarification, Paul.
Comment by Chad Evans — Tuesday, February 14, 2006 @ 3:18 pm UTC
come on man, im trying to be peaceful here and now ur telling me to think for once, i think im the one doing alll the thinking when im the one trying to explain without having to blame u or judge u..
King hussein is the direct descendent of prophet mohammed, and i think u have heard of him and how he was loved by everyone and how he was the real man behind peace and stability., the muslim world lacks a leader like that, that could make our faces shine infront of all other nations, too b